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Help Needed With Smart 1000le In Japan

Discussion in 'Sport Classic' started by Lucky Pete, Sep 16, 2020.

  1. Hi from Japan :)

    I have just been up to see a family friend who has a PS 1000LE that wont start. Im not familar with these at all. He seems to think it could be the starter relay (can someone confirm that's it in the pic below please). For me I was thinking maybe fuel pump (and or relay) as when listening for the fuel pump when the key was turned on I didnt hear the pump every time and even on the one occassion I did the bike still didnt start.


    On turning on the key bike will not turn over at all. Immobliser light stays on as was the engine light. Now my Japanese isnt all that good and my knowledge of these is zero so I filmed him running through what I presume is some resets using the throttle after each set of flashing lights. Here is a link to that. Apologies for the video quality :(

    He is a really nice guy that I would like to help and our nearest dealer is hours away.

    Any suggestions what if anything we can further check? Just had a thought, does the side stand have to be up for these to start?

    #1 Lucky Pete, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  2. I am not familiar with these but as far as i know the stand needs to be up. @XH558 has one i think.
  3. He needs to get all the cheap fixes out of the way first. Charge battery. Check the earth fly lead on the ECU for breaks or corrosion. Check the earth connector on the battery for breaks and corrosion. Separate ECU from heat sink, check for corrosion and clean. Replace pump/injector/coil micro relay.
    As the immo bypass procedure appears not to be working that would suggest the immo in the clocks is at fault. The expensive route is replace the clocks. The cheaper route would be to disable the immo in the ECU. You can do this with an Android tablet, TuneECU and the cables as supplied by Lonelec (they need to be FTDI chipped).https://www.lonelec.co.uk/Guzzidiag-Melcodiag-3pin-Interface-Cable
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  4. Nope on mine the stand stays down and it fires up,but it might have had a sidestand bypass switch fitted before my ownership.
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  5. It is annoying having to sit on them with stand up but to be honest i would rather have it as i'm sure you know we have all done it, pulling away with the sidestand down and that sudden oh fuck moment when you nearly get highsided out of the seat:scream:
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  6. I don't believe it's happened to me as yet,after seven years the 916 still has the flip stand which i don't mind but you have to remember that everytime when moving it about or your up a creek without the paddle,the only one is the 996 that has to be in the up position.
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  7. My 900ie and the 996 the stand needs to be up.
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  8. That's a very easy combination to remember.:upyeah:
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  9. immo light stays on, i think that should go off if the ecu, key and dash matched and happy

    if it helps i have an s2r 1000 service manual that will be pretty much the same from an electronics spec
  10. as chrisw says above, best check the obvious stuff (battery, clean earths, check fuses, swap the the fuel pump and ecu relays round, ecu connector corrosion) it could also be as simple as the antenna under the key surround had dropped down, or the connector for is has become corroded or the cable damaged
  11. Thanks all that have replies so far, very helpful. Will get him to try putting up the kick stand. Battery is out of the bike and he connected up a charged car battery via jumper leads so assuming that's OK.

    Are there english pdf manuals available that might help us?

    Funkatronic where are the fuses, relays and ECU located so I can check those things? Is it a simple job removing the key surrond?

    Thanks again all for your help so far.
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  12. if possible, could you add symptoms - i.e. when did it last run? Has any work been carried out since it ran ok? Has bike been washed recently or did it get severely wet while using? has it got an aftermarket alarm installed?
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  13. in your original post your pictured the solenoid btw
    but i don't think thats the fault. its looking like its an immobiliser /ecu connection issue first off.

    Has he got/tried any other keys (red or black)?
    does the key def still have the chip in (has the head been damaged at all)
    Is he certain that he is using the electrical immo code (not the mechanical) printed on the little card and its 100% the card for that bike?
    If he is certain, and the below doest work, then Chris previous suggestion of disabling the immo in the ECU might be the most cost effective fix.

    but it can hurt to try the easy stuff first :)

    on my bike...(PS may differ)
    The key surround has two bolts next the the key and it lifts off, the cable is connected to the main frame near the headstock. the antenae is number "3"
    Screen Shot 2020-09-16 at 13.28.06.png

    The main and injection relays are 2 identical small black cubes found under the tank next to the battery.
    these just pull out and plug in. sometimes swapping them round identifies one is failing as the nature of your problem moves. if you have a multi meter these can be tested but as they are a common item to fail and a cheap fix replacing them both is a good for peace of mind
    number 7 is the relays, (23 is the master fuse)

    Screen Shot 2020-09-16 at 13.37.06.png

    on the other side of the battery is the fusebox (1) and ecu itself above it

    Screen Shot 2020-09-16 at 13.35.37.png
    the ECU connecters have a latch that rotates and each plug comes away individually. fairly easily , you can inspect the pins on the ecu for any obvious rust or water borne furriness

    there also should be a small black wire attached to an eyelet under one of the ECU bolts. this is the ECU earth and the bike may not run without it. if its there it doesnt hurt to take it off and give it . and the ecu heat sink body a clean with abrasives to ensure good contact.

    best do the above with the battery disconnected!
    #15 funkatronic, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  14. Wow Funkatronic thanks so much for such a detailed response. I will go see him tomorrow and start working through everything as suggested. Once again thanks all for the help to date. Hopefully we can sort this out for him.
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  15. good luck, let us know how you get on.

    one thing i did just notice was that at the very end of the video (1.25), after the immo bypass process ends with a with a 4 second flash the EOBD light goes out which according to the manual means that the code card procedure was completed correctly (the immo light will stay on throughout )
    he then presses the starter button and we hear a click and and the whole dash flashes like its trying to start then the EOBD light comes on again and i think we hear the fuel pump prime.

    i just watched this vid and this guy turns the ignition off and on again at the end of the bypass process then is able to start the bike (although the manual does not mention this)

    cant hurt to try

    fwiw i think you might have a couple of faults going on here. 1 is likely related is the immo antenna /key chip not being recognised, the other looks like a more general starting issue which can have a range of causes.
    it might be the case that the starter relay/soleniod is at fault after all , but it could also be a whole bunch of other stuff including just not enough current getting to the starter motor (weak battery, corroded terminals on the battery and earth bonding cables and solenoid)
    it could also be the ECU is not powering up at all so pay particular attention to the 3a ECU fuse in the fusebox and the injection relay
    the manual has instructions on how to check the solenoid (starter contactor in the book) with a multimeter

    happy hunting
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  16. yes, ^ I was thinking similar, but didn't know the sequence well enough. Also thought the sound that accompanied the starter button press attempt reminded me of a flat battery.
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  17. your immo issue is that the dash cannot read the key (error code = 2 flashes of immo light after key on)
    most likely;
    a bad key/chip,
    a bad or loose antennae,
    corroded antennae or dash connector,
    a broken cable in the loom

    fyi in this french vid he also powers ignition off-on at the end of the immo bypass process before hitting the starter button so def give that a try.

    i think Chris could be right about symptoms of a flat battery being your secondary starting issues
    if you don't have a known good bike battery to use, make sure you use decent quality thick jump leads and they are well connected. also the car battery is fully charged and in good shape as you will need a alot of current.

    I might be wrong, but to hear a click when the starter is pressed indicates that the solenoid is being fired (unless the click is coming from a relay in the dash itself, but i dont think so)
    If i'm right, it also implies;
    A: the immo has successfully been bypassed
    B: the starter safety switches (neutral, kill switch , clutch switch, side stand) are all set correctly for the dash to allow the bike to start

    If these assumptions are correct then the problem is likely to be in the high current starter circuits.
    1 weak or insufficient power source
    2 corroded or broken high current electrical connections between battery, solenoid, starter and earth
    3 bad solenoid
    4 bad starter motor

    its unlikely, but you could also have a seized engine so its worth checking if the engine turns over manually.

    to do this take the spark plugs out (there are 4 total on that engine) shift it to 6th gear and turn the rear wheel forwards (simplest way is put it on a rear paddock stand but its possible to turn the wheel while on side stand with some effort),
    you should be able to turn the engine over fairly easily with the plugs out.
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  18. Thanks again all! Quick update. I had hoped to get up there today but was stuck working on my roof. After being assured the battery was all good both times I asked previously I got a message from him today that he had fitted a new battery and it started. Great news I was thinking as was he.

    About 10mins later I got another message saying to restart it he has to re-enter the code every time to start it... :(

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