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Mgp Brembo - What’s The Difference?

Discussion in 'Clothing, Gadgets & Equipment' started by bradders, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. apart from about 2 grand.... What does the MGP mc do or have that’s so special over the rcs or standard billet 19x20 or 19x18 etc?
     
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  2. Thx, good info but doesn’t show a comparison. Cants find anything in the first 4 google pages.... I’ve seen a few, Ben on here is selling them too, for sale recently at 1300+ for used when you can buy billet for about 400 these days new?
     
  3. Bit more info in the RCS descrption about cross over from MotoGP, https://www.brembo.com/en/bike/sporting-use/master-cylinders. Still doesn’t explain the cost difference. If it’s any indication, I lent my spare radial monoblock master cylinder to the BSB race team just in case the RCS they’d ordered didn’t turn up in time. Andy
     
  4. I just can’t find any real discernible difference. Materials? Weight? Adjustability?
     
  5. Could be similar material to the calipers, in an aluminium and lithium alloy ? I also think that the MotoGP master cylinder incorporates a quick coupling instead of the cheaper in-brake/clutch line quick coupling connector for a quick change. Andy
     
  6. That could be much of the cost then, as those quick change gadgets are very pricey ! (Not sure why?! It’s just some kind of valve isn’t it?!)
     
  7. The concept is to allow you to disconnect the brake or clutch line from the m/c or caliper/slave cylinder without introducing air when you reconnect. I’ve got a pair on the front brake lines on the 1098R which are great when you remove the front wheel because you don’t have to dangle the caliper on the brake lines. Andy
     
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  8. I was thinking the same on the Brembo t drive discs, what is the difference on the sbk ones compared to the ones you buy over the counter, the only difference I can see is 8mm?, £600 for 330mm new t drive, £750 for second hand 338mm ones ??
     
  9. On a related note I swapped from the standard master cylinder to an RCS one on the BMW and it made a massive difference. I've been spoilt with the quality of the braking system on the Panigale, once I moved to Z04 pads there's not really much more that you would want to do as the brakes are as good as you could wish and I'm not sure I could physically handle any more stopping power.

    I thought the comparably poor braking on the BMW was just pads or callipers, this is the first time I've experienced a master cylinder making such a difference. I've got Brembo GPRX callipers and race pads still to go on so it will be interesting to see how much better the much heavier S1000RR gets and if it becomes as good as the Panigale stock calipers with all these shiny upgrades. The team is being supported by EBC this year so I also have EBC pads and discs which I will do back to back testing with the Brembos at Jerez at the end of the month since I have all the data systems on the BMW. They are a lot cheaper so I'm not expecting the same stopping power but it will be interesting to get some solid comparison data to see what part of the system really makes a big difference?
     
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  10. My understanding from an interview that MotoGP did was that the GP calipers are not only milled rather than cast but that they are made from totally different alloy/titanium material designed to be even lighter and yet stronger heat management. They have things like titanium pistons that are cross drilled and coated with super low friction material to take the 800+ degree heat. They wouldn't name the materials.

    In regards to Superbike 'over the counter' stuff, (i.e unlike the MotoGP stuff where you would have to be in contract with the brake manufacturer) it's less clear to me, perhaps they retain the fancy pistons etc but in slightly heavier and calipers with less heat resistance.

    I wouldn't dare to go into more detail, just repeating what I watched as it was really interesting, If I can find the link I'll post it up.
     
  11. I get it with calipers a discs to some extent (lighter, better heat management and stuff) but a radial mc is a radial mc isn’t it when you are talking brembo? I know there is considerable difference between ratios, but what makes an 18x20 MGP one worth 6 times at least a regular billet rcs type one?
     
  12. Material. anything to reduce weight costs, just look at the aircraft industry and formula 1.
     
  13. Its the internals, also the entire piston enclosure is made out of magnesium, or other types of alloys Titanium internals.

    You probably saw me selling it if on eBay, The technology is the same as F1 the pressures are different in the systems to compliment ratios of the callipers

    Usual the ratios are to the riders feel, why there are so many. Also down to science.

    They also reduce brake fade etc.

    As for the staubli connectors they allow complete removal of all callipers and hydraulic lines without bleeding the system. Very handy if you're fixing up after a crash or swapping parts over. The staubli connectors i have are only available to teams and are direct from brembo.

    Hope this helps

    Ben
     
  14. they are 6mm thick and made of specific alloys, Also they are drilled differently plus all the RnD that goes into them. The outer ring is also different form standard to reduce warping from zo4 pads

    New is 1680 euros
     
  15. Is the MC also titanium somewhere? And will the MC need to be matched to certain calipers?

    There is another person I've seen selling on FB and EBay too, which made me wonder what makes them that much better :upyeah:
     

  16. That will probably be Claudio from Italy, i deal with him from time to time.

    They don't need to be matched as such but there are certain ratios that work depending on the feel of the brake, too hard to soft etc

    The piston inside of the master cylinder is titanium.

    I can get an exact answer from someone in the know. It is mental expensive!
     
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  17. It looks like a 17mm master cylinder as per normal so the matching of master cylinder and Caliper piston size is the same. Panigale have the smaller pistons in the callipers so you use the 17mm whereas the BMW for instance has the 19mm master cylinder to match the larger piston size of the M4 calipers. This BMW MC would have no feel if you used it on the Pani smaller pistons.

    Here's a bunch of notes I had copied when working out my caliper replacements and MC matching fyi:


    Brembo RCS master cylinders

    19RCS , 17RCS, 15RCS, 14RCS ? These numbers identify piston diameter:

    • 19RCS to be installed on twin disks bikes with axial or radial calipers

    • 17RCS to be installed on twin disks bikes with axial or radial calipers whose pistons diameter is 32mm or lower; for example Ducati Panigale or RSV4, Yamaha R6 etc etc.

    • 15RCS to be used on twin disks braking system carrying floating calipers (Naked), and on single disk bikes (motard).

    • The 15 RCS with 15 x 20 set up works like a 16 x 18 mc, while 15 x 18 equals a 16 x 16 mc.

    • 14RCS to be installed on single/twin disks Scooters and single disks Motorcycles (from 50cc up to 600cc) . Available both Right and Left Side.





    Brembo M50 Panigale callipers on 999? - Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum

    "When you design a hydraulic system it's important to have good feedback from the lever as to how much lever force to apply to achieve a desired braking rate. Having good feel, sensitivity and control is the major factor influencing braking quality.

    The main factor in designing good braking modulation characteristics is the ratio of the total area of the caliper pistons to the area of the master cylinder.

    The Panigale calipers have a total piston area of 5655 sq. mm and has a master cylinder area of 201 sq. mm. This gives a hydraulic ratio of 5655/201 = 28.1.

    The RCS brake master cylinder has an area of 284 sq. mm. Used with the Panigale calipers you get an hydraulic ratio of 5655/284 = 19.9.

    A general design rule-of-thumb for twin rotor brake systems is as follows:


    30:1 - soft feel
    27:1 - sweet spot for design
    23:1 - firm feel
    20:1 - wooden feel


    Dennie, the 1098 monoblocs have a caliper piston area of 7263 sq. in and used with the RCS will give you a very nice hydraulic ratio of 7263/284 = 26.6."

    __________________

    Brembo Calipers

    M50s have 30mm (32mm??) pistons in the calipers. (Used on Panigale)

    M4s have 34mm pistons. (used on BMW HP4)



    M50s use a 16/17mm piston radial Master Cylinder,

    M4's are paired with a 19mm radial MC.
     
    #18 Monners, Feb 5, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
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