Am I the only one to think that the OE front calipers on the 1200 Mutley are fine ? Very nearly pooped my pants on Sunday when a car just stopped in front of me before signalling to turn right but the ABS worked brilliantly and I pulled the biggest stoppy before coming to halt a couple of inches off the blokes bumper. And before the critics chime in, I was travelling at the speed limit of 50mph and was about15 meters behind the car as we entered a gentle right hand bend. Andy
Had similar on mine a few weeks ago - bad decision on my part to overtake a truck, had me head on into an oncoming car. According to those following, my back wheel was 4ft off the deck - #%^* knows how I got away with it TBH, but back on topic, I thought the stock stoppers were brilliant!
Standard calipers are ok, but not brilliant. try riding with a bunch of mates on sports bikes, and when one of them stands on their brakes see how yours compare. My experience was that R1s, Blades, and most of the BMW range will see them outbrake you, and if your following them fairly closely this can get quite entertaining. Riding two up with luggage just emphasises the lack of performance of them when compared to others. A bit like engine power, some are satisfied with lesser performance. Personally I would rather not have any surprises. They fit them to the Diavel so imo ought to put them on the MTS too.
Have a look at P4 34's. Few around now from harvested S100RR's. Great calipers and good VFM, pads are a bit pricey though!
I'm not sure I agree with your reasoning. I never ride so close to a buddy that I cannot take evasive action if he does something I don't expect and as several forum members will attest, I'm not the fastest rider around and if I lag behind, the guys know I'm not going to play catch up. 2 up and/or with 30kg of luggage, I wouldn't be travelling at speeds where lesser performance is going to be an issue. You are right however in that horses for courses, the OE equipment is going to be more than enough for some, me included. Andy
I think I've done more miles than most folk, and most of it two-up with 30-40kg of luggage. Much of that fairly spirited too and the OE front brakes have been well up to the task of reigning in my over-enthusiasm and dealing with unexpected events. After all, if the ABS is chiming in then bigger calipers aren't going to stop you any quicker. My issue is feel. The OE set-up just doesn't have what I like. My 21 year old 900 Diversion surprises me every time I jump back on her with a firm, solid feel to the brakes that shoots feedback up my arm. My Multi by comparison has soft, spongy feeling brakes which at a standstill I can pull back to the bar. She's always been that way and no amount of bleeding, adding of bleed nipples or change of fluid has changed it. Since then I've ridden an 848 Evo with M4 calipers and ABS. That bike had so much feel from the front brakes that it makes me feel that Icould stop faster even if in reality it is all still down to the grip of the front tyre. I want that feel on my Multi and with the M4's all the components are now the same as that 848 Evo. My bike is going back together again now so I'll find out this weekend. I'll report how happy I get!
I can already tell you that the M4s provide better performance and feel, as will MJW. Speed is a subjective thing. One persons brisk is another persons moderate. I do ride fast, but when appropriate, and I do so two up. I'm sure for some that means I take greater risks than they may be comfortable with, but like I say it's subjective. Undoubtedly some will ride faster than me and take risks I won't. 400 quid for much better stoppers is IMO a no brainer, and much better money spent than for example on a bit of carbon. Longwayhome, I am sure you will be pleased with them
Can I just ask a question. I have heard the reason that Ducati didn't fit them to the Multi is down to the stresses placed on the forks if you need to brake hard ie the M4's outperform the forks and electronics on the Multi which led to prototype Multi's with M4's fitted, grounding out and locking up the front wheel? After riding a mates Diavel, I couldn't believe how good his brakes are compared to my Multi.
You can bottom the forks with the standard brakes. Electronics are unaffected - they're only interested in relative wheel speeds. As an aside I may have a set available soon, with pads & modified lines included
I believe the lower fork legs are the same on the diavel, and cannot believe they would purposely design the forks to be that marginal. I had the calipers on my last mts for a while (~8k miles) with no problem, and they have been on my current mts for the last 5k miles. Abs works just the same, I can brake much harder and still not get it to come on. Obviously just grabbing a handful will see a a activate, but proper controlled use, they are superb. I have nothing to gain here, I already have them. There is a lot of misinformation and speculation. Some of us gave already fitted them and I am not aware of any issues from any of them. Hope that helps
As someone has mentioned before , feedback aside, surely the braking ability is a combination of tyre grip and the ABS? Wouldn't the ABS be cutting in at the same point regardless of what brakes are equipped when you reach the traction threshold? That threshold would not change regardless of the brakes fitted ?
Yes and no. As you say, grip defines your braking limit, the threshold at which you start to lock up/slide, at which point the ABS should take over. However, in terms of "ability", the braking system (calipers etc) determine how close you can get to that limit, how often and how consistently.
I agree with Doodle. If you consider the braking ability prior to ABS cutting in, then ABS can be discounted. This is where the calipers provide the benfit, and lets face it where most of us spend 99.99% of our time (I rarely have abs kick in). Braking effort is a combination of a number of things, not just tyre grip: road surface, tyre condition, pressure, pad area, pad material, disc material, speed, gross weight of bike, lean angle, the list goes on. How you use the brakes too has an impact. Grab a handful will see the brakes lock easily. Apply the pads and then squeeze will see far more braking pressure being applied. before tyre grip is defeated. Using better pad material is accepted as a quick / cheap way of improving brake performance. it is generally accepted that the pads fitted as standard are not the best performing ones available, they are a compomise for performance, life, and cost. All calipers are not born equal. This is another compromise of cost / performance. The standard calipers are fine for a light weight supersport bike, but imo are inadequate for a sports/touring bike, designed to carry more weight. The M4 calipers are a single casting, and of a bridged design. This stops the flex in the caliper seen with non monobloc / unbridged ones. They also have comparatively greater pad surface area. So when you apply the same lever pressure you get less flex in the caliper, and consequently better feel and greater pressure to the disc. When you really need to stand on them to don't need to pull the lever right back to the bars either. I dont get why fitting better pads or indeed tyres to get better performance is fine, but taking the next step to change calipers / discs to gain a further improvement in braking is not accepted. Some may not need it, but the fact is they work.
Just reading through that reminded me that I have sintered pads and race fluid in mine, so not "exactly" as it left the factory. Don't think anyone is saying Monoblocs aren't better (had them on the 1098 Trico), just that they aren't "needed" as the stock brakes are hardly dangerous, but if people want to upgrade, then why not? If you want dangerous, you should try stopping my '76 GT750 in the damp !!
Well im picking up the mutley with monoblocs and custom hoses tommorow, I cant wait, to be honest the only reason ive upgraded is because I had an 899 with monoblocs, I love the initial bite and i changed to carbon rae pads aswell, they need a bit of warming before they work great though!! Ideal for the trackday on the 1st though haha!!
