Bearings all installed. Must have split the cases about 7 times so far getting the end float right! I decided a piece of cardboard won't cut the mustard so I made a wooden plate to pop the screws in and out! One of my problems is a number of shims and spaces are either now wrong or missing. I have also discovered the later 650 have slightly different spaces and shims in the gear box!! This is only obvious after trying to figure out something was wrong with the relative positions of the main and layshafts. A careful analysis between the original 500 pantah gearbox and the later 650 manual made that fact obvious - doh! Any way I have made a few extra spacers and shims on the lathe that I don't need. Whilst doing all this on saturday (whilst playing a fine selection of 1970s's Bowie CDs ) I also stuck the carbs in and out of the ultrasonic learner for most of the day. Discovered one of the cleaning solutions I was using must have bene alkaline as the brass and alumium parts eventually went blacK!!!! Tried the other cleaning fluid I have and they came out much better (assumed slightly acidic). Heres a picture- not perfect or as new but getting close maybe a few more hours!!!
Finally got all the shimming correct and put the cases together. Must admit I did the measuring one shaft at a time. Ended up making up a good few shims as the selection I ordered did not quite give me the dimensions I wanted. I must have had the cases apart about 15 times!! Cautious and slow I know but I wanted it right. Did a a final check with all the shafts in and all was ok. Maybe next time I will jump in with both feet and do them in one hit. Anyway, next job the heads. Here's the 'finished' cases.
Excellent @Multiverse. Loving this. Keep going, slow but sure, do it right. At this rate your engine will end up being robust, long lasting, sweet sounding, good looking, and oil tight. Good luck.
After what seemed like hours I finally got all the rocker shafts shimmed up and somehow managed to have enough correct closing and open shims for one head only. Made a rocker pin remover as it was a PITA using a M5 bolt washers and an old socket (also made a lever to hold down spring) Making a shim measuring piece was a bit tricky getting the size right as it has to sit right on the bottom of a radius. Ordering a 'known size' made life a lot easier. I can see why ducati went over to a clip on the opening rocker as its a faff having to pull out the pin every time. Doing it on the bench made life a lot easier as Im sure doing it on a bike adds a a whole new level of complexity! New shims ordered for the other head this week for hopefully I should have then done bye next week. Making a pully nut socket at he moment and then as a pulley holder.
Heads all done so started to put it all back together. I was sure I had a choice of three gideon pins but could I find all three - NO! Only found one so carried on with only the vertical head being completed. Now awaiting a delivery from back to classic in holland. Alternator rotor looks like a pig to hold as it does not have a serrated outer body. Looks like I will have to make a tool that locates on the from face where there are what looks like a very shallow pattern in the die casting. (any ideas?) Needed a moral boost so decided to put engine in the frame any way and work around that. Attached are some photos. Picked up a seat unit from eBay for £20 +p&P so happy about that. Only issue is that it seems too narrow by about 10mm. If I push it down any further it will split. I suspect I will have to cut it down the middle and fibreglass an extension piece (morris minor bonnet lid style! - on the inside only). Having looked at the photos Im just about to upload Im now thinking it needs to be raised off the frame a bit (removing the tightness issues) as I have a big gap at the rear of the tank. Thoughts? You will also notice a new to me tank curtesy of the gentlemanly pete1950. I also needed to remove the effects of the verese design department and remove some lugs from the rear to remove the allazura effect! Back now to a more bologna pantah style at its rear end (oh and the seat units a better fit.) As you will recall from an earlier post the running gear is all being rebuilt 'unrestored' as i want to get her up and running for a few months before I then break her down again and make her look pretty. (Apart form the engine which is hopefully as good a new now). I have a rusty conti 2-1 silencer and exhaust. I think I will get it blasted and then just black spray it with heat resistance paint - any thoughts? Hope you are enjoying my rambling posts. Keith MM
Well I knew the rotor was going to be trouble what with no castleations or holes to grab hold onto. Little did I know how long it would take to make a took to hold it. All you have is the die cast bumps on the top face. Not even big bumps! Cutting a long story short you can see from the photos I cut 14 little segments on the bench grinder then cut each one off with an angle grinder. I then had to form a circular pieces of steel around the rotor and weld the little segments onto it. This distorted the ring some what so I had to turn the inside to ensure it would still for on the rotor. I then welded a ring to hold the segments on the top . I then attached a rod to hold the tool. I thought I was good to go but I could only get about 50Nm before the bloody thing would slip off the little bumps on the top of the rotor. Looking a bit closer it was obvious the segments needed to be really flat to ensure the tool sat flat and square on the 'bump face ' of the rotor. Fortunately I now have a mill so I had to mill the internal face flat. Second time around it slotted onto the rotor snugly and up to 114NM. I also put a piece of bar into the swininging arm so the tool handle had something to push against. Must have taken about 4 bloody hours In total !!,!,!. I suspect many a pantah engine has had the nut taken off with a cold chisel and hammer and then torqued back up with the same method!! If you need to borrow the tool let me know.
Could someone confirm in some detail the exact routing of the starter cable to the solenoid. The natural run appears to be across to the lhs then tied up with the Bosch pick up wires. Not sure having the pickup,wires next to a large current when starting is a good thing? I assume the oil pressure wire also goes piggyback with the starter cable?
The run of the Starter Motor to Solenoid cable. Cable routing from the solenoid is - (1) from the top of the solenoid (M8 bolt, 11mm hexagon) to the right side lower frame tube, (2) under the front carburettor, (3) from the right engine mounting bolt transversely to the left engine mounting bolt, (4) down the left front of the crankcase near the alternator lead, (5) from the left end of the starter to the right, and (6) to the starter connector (M6 bolt). Cable ties required are: (1) To the lower right frame tube near the front carburettor. (2) To the right front engine mounting bolt (it has a flanged extension designed to attach a cable tie). (3) To the left front engine mounting bolt (likewise). (4) To the alternator cable near where it emerges from the left engine cover gland. (5) To the oil pressure switch cable where it passes underneath the starter motor. NOTE: It is important to check that the electric cable cannot touch the exhaust pipe or the cylinder barrel.
That's brilliant many thanks for that Pete. Unlike those modern fangled bike manuals with their nice schematics for the wiring routing it can be a bit of a guess with older bikes. Made a start with the front end of the wiring harnes which to be honest is going to be more involved than the middle and rear end which kind of sorts it self out. There are a number of 'enhancements' on the allazzura version which are -fuel level light, hazard warning light,petrol level sensor, clock, side stand flasher, clutch switch, side stand switch. These are all redundant for my build along with the indicators. The loom also appears to be about 1/2 a meter longer at the nose of the bike. No doubt to allow it to go through and around the front fairing. Cutting a long story I have cut it off and am now redoing the front end to suit the build. I have attached a photo of my spaghetti wiring as it stands at the moment!
This was a distinct possibility but I decided to get her running first. I plan to ride her this summer then strip off all the cycle parts in the winter. I can then do a new loom, paint for the body panels, frame wheels etc. I also want to get her 'running' without spending money on 'nice to do's' -trying to spend only on 'need to do's'. Thirty year old Italian electrics are certainly not pretty and need replacing but doing it this way I get it running quick and get my head around the wiring. Best regards Keith mm
if you don't mind going modern, the Motogadget m-Unit will solve a lot of your problems!! so simple even i could do a loom with one..... you just need to splice on some extra wires to power/earth your idiot lights. AND it gets rid of all the relays.
Wow, that looks really neat. I may take this path this winter when I take it off the road for a final,Polish. May also look at an alternative to the Bosch pick up. Having put a dial gauge through a modified cut down spark plug to get bang on TDC, it will be very annoying to use a strobe when it's all oiled up to discover it needs a little 'tweak'! Does any one know why the gap dimension changed from the original,pantah manual to the 650 allazzura? ( I don't have the manuals in front of me at the moment (in garage) but I think it was 0.4-0.45 for the pantah and 0.5-0.55 for the allazzura. Thank you all for the ideas and contributions. Keith mm
Engine back together after having to make a load of tools. I attach a photo. If any pants engine owners need to borrow one and live near me they are more than welcome. Pick ups had the normal cracked insulation so it was replaced with high temp oil resistance silicone wire. Healthy blob of high temperature gasket cement as well. I had an old set of rear sets so I have modified these and used these. As the exhaust on the allazura is held on differently to the pantah I had to cut and weld in a pair of tubes - photo included. After I have the missing clutch part mystery solved I will try to get her up and running. Battery is under seat if your curious.
The beast finally runs! After figuring out how to side step the 'safety box' cagiva inserted into the pantah wiring circuit (links the side stand, switch, neutral and clutch with to the ignition) I finally have her running. Fortunatley there was a conti 2:1 exhaust system in the box of bits so woo hoo!!! Sorted out most of the warning lights with an LED and 1K resistor. Unfortunately (?) these new LEDs are so bloody bright a 1k resistor is not enough- hay how! Will open up the little plastic bricks and try a different value (over the winter). Sorting the horn circuit was fun (horn kaput) sorting the rear brake light was fun (rear switch was kaput), sorting the neutral light was fun (neutral switch kaput!). Next job is the LHS switchgear. This should also prove to be entertaining as it has been replaced with what I assume is a suzuki version with completely different colour wires. Oh and my wiring is for a slightly later version which has an intermediate position for the lights (side lights) . Hopefully I shall be thinking about an MOT very soon! Did have a video of bike running but forum did not like the file type.
Link to drop box file of bike running ps it was warm before I revved the nuts off it! Dropbox - IMG_0135 2.m4v
Nice to see it coming on well. In the back of the seat is a funny place to put the battery. Why not in the usual place (near your right ankle)?
