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Paris Attacks

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by idrinkbeer, Nov 13, 2015.

  1. If what you are saying is correct the French have got it right.Anyone who leaves their own shores to go and fight abroad for an enemy of their own country should have their citizenship revoked,their direct family deported and all assets and property seized.Its betrayal of your country and everything we stand for
     
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  2. So now you are saying that children should be punished for offences of their father. OK, so you will not mind being punished for some offences your father committed, will you?
     
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  3. Very bloody slowly! With a good brief and working the appeals process it can be dragged out for years we all know that - only need to look at Abzul Hamza with the hook - he played a very clever legal jousting match which was funded by legal aid while all his hangers on lived in a nice big pad in London paid for by us.Bet he couldn't believe his luck???
     
  4. My father fought for his country and followed the orders he was given to bomb a murderous facist regime.He saw most of his mates lose their lives and had about a one in three chance of not coming back so yeah if you think that is a crime take me to Dresden,Hamburg or Berlin but DO NOT insult a brave mans memory
     
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  5. OK then, your father was, as it happens, a great hero. Fine. Somebody else's dad was a great criminal - so you are saying the son should be punished on account of the offences of the father, are you?
     
  6. I am talking about a son who is living under his parents roof.Ive bought up my own kids and I'm sure I would know if they had been "radicalised" as the media call it.It obviously isn't an overnight process and I simply cannot believe all their parents giving television interviews stating they didn't have any clue the road that their sons were going down.Any parent would spot some sort of sign
     
  7. What you posted was:
    "If what you are saying is correct the French have got it right.Anyone who leaves their own shores to go and fight abroad for an enemy of their own country should have their citizenship revoked, their direct family deported and all assets and property seized."
    The bit of that post under discussion is the bit where you advocate the direct family (son? father? mother? brothers and sisters?) being punished on account of the actions of their relative. Implicit in this is punishing people without trial, and without them having committed any offence.

    Has it not occurred to you that practicing this kind of injustice, cruelty, and vindictiveness does not strengthen a cause - it weakens it?
     
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  8. Yes, of course but the innocent victims in Paris didn't have the luxury of the legal system - they were tragically murdered on a night out doing what they love.Desperate times call for desperate measures as Isis aren't up for talking or mediating and I can't see any other way of combating them?No air campaign can sort this out - not without killing thousands of innocent Syrian men,women and children.Probably the only way would be to restrict their money flow and armaments? I don't really think a lot of the UK really understand how bad this could turn as it really hasn't come here yet
     
  9. It appears, Australia, as is often the case has got the thing pretty well worked out.

    Some of those that arrive in their chosen safe haven have very recently tossed their passports etc into the sea. They know how to play the system and i don't understand why it is beyond us to expel people that are not genuine refugee's.
     
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  10. lol you dont seriously believe that?
     
  11. But same thing happens to sons that turn out to be murderers, rapists or other generic criminals. Sometimes you will see the change but as parents you will be the last people to see it/act on it.
    Especially if it was to put your kid in trouble.
    On some occasions no one will see that change as person was always distant in 1st place, couple that with small changes at a time and everybody around gets used to it and treats that as norm.
     
  12. We should remember that under international conventions, to qualify for refugee status as someone fleeing for their life a person must accept refuge in the first safe country where it is offered. If they decide subsequently to leave that country for better opportunities elsewhere they do not take their refugee status with them. They become economic migrants and illegal immigrants in most cases if they bypass customs and turn up on someone else's shores without prior consent. There is no compulsion for other countries to grant them refugee status and they can be returned to the country where their asylum was granted. Or indeed repatriated to their country of origin.
    On this basis unless we send out an RAF or Royal Navy taxi to collect them, almost no one trying to get to the UK, for example, is in legal terms a refugee.
     
    #412 Gimlet, Nov 25, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2015
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  13. Or promise to feed their remains to pigs
     
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  14. An excellent and obvious point.

    Unfortunately once they arrive in the EU they are "processed" by one country and then we are led to believe that every other EU nation has to accept them.
     

  15. when you say "led to believe" do you mean its their basic human right and current law of the land?
     
  16. "Basic human right" is hard to quantify in this context. It is "the current law of the land" though. Not necessarily the same thing.

    I believe that John was expressing his skepticism of the law by phrasing the way he did :)
     
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  17. Errr ...Yes, I do actually. More than a bit surprised you don't ? What has where you pop out of the womb have to do with nationality ??
     
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  18. its a centuries old tradition mate

    noun, plural nationalities for 1, 2, 5, 6.

    1.

    the status of belonging to a particular nation,whether by birth or naturalization:
     
  19. It is an absurdity to think that you should make families responsible for the actions of one of their members. Most Scientologists don't have Scientologist parents. Normally the families of cult members are devastated by their belonging to a cult. I imagine that many families of ISIS fighters are deeply upset and traumatised by one of their number going to fight for ISIS.

    As for refugees, I have a sneaking suspicion that the EU sees this in a peculiar light. Shengen seeks to reduce national sovereignty and have a one big Euro melting point policy. I suspect that the powers in Brussels really do think that the point of entry of a refugee is irrelevant. You can see this with Calais. The French do nothing about it because the camp inhabitants want to come to the UK, as if where they want to go weighs anything in the argument. It's where they are that counts, or more particularly even, where they came from.
     
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  20. A slightly simplistic way of looking at things. You don't just do everything that your ally would like. We were loyal to the US for their Iraq war and look where it has got us. Was removing Saddam a British priority? No. It was a Washington Neocon priority.

    Now of course the boot is somewhat on the other foot. Hollande wants American forces on the ground, but I'm not at all sure he'll get them. Obama doesn't have much longer to run and he doesn't want his legacy to be another Middle-Eastern war. The Americans are quite happy to pick and choose their moments (both world wars evidence of this). Maybe it's not unreasonable; you'd have to expect them to put their own country's interests first.
     
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