Fair point. Try these for a start: 1. Stop providing public money to muslim schools which they use to brainwash the next generation 2. Stop allowing imams to preach violence and hatred in mosques without being prosecuted 3. Stop allowing children to be mutilated and abused under the pretext that islam requires it 4. Stop providing muslim prisoners with no books except the Koran 5. Stop muslims performing fake "weddings" which have no legal force 6. Start vetting immigrants and asylum seekers as they arrive, pick out the violent muslim fanatics, and detain them These measures, and others like them, could be introduced rapidly in UK and other countries, without diminishing human rights generally, if only there was the political will. Which there isn't.
How do you propose to do that? Immigrants are entering Europe in such numbers there is no possibility of vetting or detention. They are simply waved through, thereby encouraging an even greater flow. Unless they have flown into a European country or made it across the sea directly from the country they are fleeing NONE of them are asylum seekers. They cease to be refugees when they reject sanctuary in the first safe country they reach. And how do you identify violent Muslim fanatics? Do you ask them whether they're violent Muslim fanatics and detain the ones that say yes?
Border controls have to start in mainland Europe. Maybe another reason to leave the EU. . Free trade yes. Zero control at borders no.
In 1938 there were lots of German refugees (Jews or democrats), in 1939 there were lots of Spanish and Polish refugees, and in 1940 there were lots of French and Dutch refugees. Hundreds of thousands of them were pouring into Britain. Most of them were anti-Nazis who were keen to help the fight on our side. But mixed in with them were some Nazi sympathisers, spies, and saboteurs. What was to be done? What was actually done was to set up a system of panels for evaluating the arrivals. They were examined and divided into enemies to be interned, and allies to be provided with guns and Spitfires. It wasn't perfect, but it worked well on the whole. No-one was deported back to the Nazis, no-one was shot, no-one was tortured, and no-one's human rights were violated any worse than by keeping them safely in an interment camp for the duration. There is no reason why a similar system could not be set up now - except of course the lack of political will. The problems facing Europe in 2015 (do I really have to remind you?) are trivial compared to those of 1940. Are you seriously suggesting it is more difficult to detect muslims than Nazis?
Ah, that's better. So we just detain Muslims full stop? We don't try to separate violent fanaticism from Islamic belief. Well I'm with you there though I would add that we keep them detained until their repatriation can be arranged and no other "processing" necessary.
Sorry, but no. You have been very seriously misinformed. The opposite is the case. Nothing in the Human Rights Act or the European Convention on Human Rights prevents criminals from being arrested, tried, convicted, and punished. Likewise nothing prevents those who aid, abet, conspire, and advocate criminal acts or acts of violence from being arrested, tried, convicted, and punished. On the contrary, citizens are guaranteed the right to life, which means that governments are bound to take action to protect my life and your life; if the UK government fails to take appropriate action to protect our lives, it is the UK government which is violating the ECHR. That is an immensely valuable and reassuring provision. Any proposal to abolish it is despicable, in my view.
I agree with much of what you have to say in this thread Pete but not this. I think our way of life is under direct attack because to defend the rights we hold dear we are being forced to abandon those rights. The enemy is within the gates and whilst the threat is not quite so immediate as 1939, the danger, over a longer timescale, is just as great.
Also the problems Europe faced in 1940 are being visited on the middle east right now. Europe is merely feeling the wind.
In that case successive UK governments have been violating the ECHR for a very long time. They've been inviting this problem into our midst and slandering as racists those of us who protested. When is the ECHR going to start doing its job?
And that Peter is well stated and a lesson for me But how come I seem to constantly hear about various Hatred preaching Muslims (and others) over the years citing Human rights and European courts when it comes to deportation etc? Is that just the solicitor pushing boundaries or does it work in their favour?
Perhaps you have been reading typically lying stories in the Daily Mail. Or perhaps you are thinking of individuals who have not been prosecuted for any criminal offence, have not been convicted of anything, have had no sentence passed upon them, and yet who are to have severe legal restrictions of some kind imposed upon them. There have been some difficult and marginal cases. Maybe you have heard of individuals who know they will be tortured and/or killed if they are forcibly transported ("rendered") to some hell-hole, and do everything they can to stay alive. Wouldn't you?
Maybe you have heard of individuals who know they will be tortured and/or killed if they are forcibly transported ("rendered") to some hell-hole, and do everything they can to stay alive. Wouldn't you?[/QUOTE] If preaching hatred is part of doing anything they can to stay alive then let em be rendered to some hell hole
I'm expecting ground forces into Syria and Iraq now. I can't see that there is much option. The French are making noises that are very much in favour (French PM on French news this evening - even if he didn't explicitly say as much). There is now a choice. Sit around and do nothing much, or wipe out IS. Not that that will necessarily cure the problem as Islamic fundamentalism is a hydra and if you cut off a head, it tends to grow another one elsewhere. I just hope that the West has a strategy for Syria. They have had long enough to think one up. Assad is a murderous turd, so he can't stay (he gave no succour to the French in his remarks today). Short of massively invading starting from Kurdistan and rolling south westwards, I can't see what is going to work. The Kurds are going to want a country. The Turks aren't going to want to give them one. It's a pile of poo, but we are going to have to try and clear it up, because otherwise, London is next. What was that Blair told us about invading Iraq making us all safer? We didn't believe him then, but would he listen?
might be time to take woman and children only? send fighting age men back with a bit of training and a weapon? call me a ...t but makes sense to me. think i would fight for my very survival. easy to say that on a Saturday night.
