The problem is that the JWs seem to be possessed of an inconvenience called 'faith' whereas I require reasoned, scientific proof - which to date, has been in short supply.
The workings of faith are almost the exact same processes as how an atheist considers the issue. Atheist - without proof, I cannot believe in God Believer - without proof, I can have faith in God The provision of proof puts an end to the argument. Proof, positive or negative, dispels faith - faith is by definition an absence of proof. The absence of proof works to reinforce both sets of people's thought processes, which means you're never going to change a person's mind on the subject. You cannot use the idea of proof, or it's absence, because in a sense, atheists and believers both believe in the same core idea. There is no god so I cannot believe vs there is no proof so I do believe. The fun part of course is that there can be no proof of god or of the absence of god. Which sets the scene rather elegantly for the arguments. :smile:
Rational and irrational are terms that tend to be dynamic and subject to change over time, and as information becomes available. Hint: "God does not play dice with the Universe".
I don't think they are flip sides of the same thing. For the rationalist (atheist) belief is conditional on, if not proof, then at least high probability. For the Believer, the belief isn't conditional on anything. Faith is surely unconditional belief. But then delusions can be unconditional beliefs too. But is is important not to overlook social currency in bolstering faith. People will tell you it's an inner conviction, but how true is that? It's an inner conviction because it is a socially acceptable inner conviction. JWs spend a lot of time with other JWs reinforcing their nutty beliefs. As the joke so astutely pointed out "I was so excited about the election of the new Pope I forgot that God doesn't exist". The sheer media frenzy about the event adds credence to the idea that there is a God, and that it is totally reasonable to be enthused about the election of the top official entrusted with promoting the untruth. As social credence is removed, faith may be punctured - as this is really what it is founded on. For the rationalist, a belief is a malleable thing, which can and should change in the light of available facts. As knowledge increases, so beliefs naturally change.
The interesting part is - what do we mean by "proof"? There is absolute, logical, mathematical, tautological 100% proof; and there is proof based on evidence, observation, experiment and inductive reasoning, which can never be 100%. Hence Richard Dawkins' famous statement that there is 'almost certainly no god'. Religionists have a slippery habit of switching the meaning of "proof" from one to the other without notice, depending on the argument they are making or resisting.
"Proof" could be in the form of peer-reviewed and approved material - which means the same thing for both atheists and believers ... but obviously, not the same source material :smile:
Inner gloves that stick to velcro, you know, like the sort on your gloves. I mean what the fucking fuck.
Putting the house key in your pocket and then forgetting to zip it up. you know them random keys you have floating about in a draw somewhere you have no idea where they're from? Yea they probably open my door...
A new one for me yesterday! Spending a day with a couple tv celebs (apparently) and listening to them make sly comments (all day) when I replied that i had no f-ing clue who they were and never seen their show and had no intention on watching it either.
MCN putting price up with no warning! £2.10 WTF! Don't buy it every week but Eff that. Will no longer get owt from me.
Women that look and smile giving me the eye when I drive my Aston but dont when Im in my transit! God know I am an ugly mofo. Just shows the shallowness of some.
Girls that smile and wave at me on my bike Then looked shocked and turn away when I take my helmet off - ffs
Sort of. An AM is a hoover. How do guys react to girls in miniskirts compared to those in massively baggy wool trousers? Women want to be sure you can afford to have their babies, Troy! That turns them on! I'm shallow. I admit it.
