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Poorly 900ss - Help Requested - Cracked Frame And Piston Damage

Discussion in 'Supersport (1974-2007)' started by Humbug, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. Hello! Not posted for a while, as I've not been using the bike that much.

    I recently put the bike into a local shop (that for the moment I won't name, maybe later)!

    The mechanic is completely rebuilding the engine, as it is smoking.

    So far he has ported the heads and lapped in the valves, and replaced the valve stem oil seals.

    The issues where I am having difficulty deciding what to do are:

    1. A minute crack in the frame. Should this be welded, and then the frame brace that I have fitted?

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    2. The pistons have apparently been blowing oil, and are a bit scratched. Are they scrap? My mechanic wants to fit Wossner pistons, which he says are good quality (forged, lighter), but of course are higher compression. After speaking to the manufacturer, they suggest the bike will run well with them, with perhaps a touch richening the mixture.

    Photos below:

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    Cheers,

    Humbug
     
  2. I don't actually recognise exactly where the crack is (I can see it) on the frame - is it the usual place?

    But weld it and brace it IMO.

    As for the pistons, I can see they have been blowing oil by - normally caused by worn rings.

    But as the scratches are quite evident then I would take a real good look at the bores - because if they are there as well, that's another reason for the blow by because the rings can't seal into the scratches.

    If you are spending money, IMO have the new pistons fitted if you can afford them, but not without getting the bores dealt with.
     
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  3. The crack is just starting but definitely better to catch now before it grows. There is a lot of force put through the headstock under hard braking, and it's just not worth the risk.
    For the pistons, It doesn't look that significant to me. If I was racing it, I would change them for sure, but for normal hard road use or track days, I would be tempted to clean them up and put new rings on.
    The scores appear quite shallow and look to me more like poor filtration at some point in its life rather than real scuffing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Thanks - sorry, should have added the arrow:
    It's on the inside of the frame, left hand side. Really hard to spot with the tank installed:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. I agree with the comments aboit the frame, get it welded and buy a frame brace from Steve Bailey in the UK for about 50gbp. Well worth it to prevent future problems. Its a known weakness at the headstock.
    As regards the pistons. Piston rings are quite pricey, I can highly recommend the 92mm JE pistons. They drop right in and are high comp. Jetting will be needed and a possible timing adjustment to prevent preignition. Not heard of these other pistons you speak of. JE are about 250gbp. I had my bores replated when I rebuilt my engine as there was a noticeable lip on the Nikasil. As far as I know, Langcourt in England are one of the few places that do it and they are very good. About 200gbp.
     
  6. I've been back to the workshop, and took some pics of the horizontal cylinder, which is the worse of the two. If you run the end of your fingernail over the grooves, it feels lightly scored.

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    Advice still sought - reinstall, replate, or scrap?
     
  7. The bolt and lug threw me.
     
  8. Trying getting the bores skimmed or honed and hope it doesn't go through the plating - they are bad enough to cause oil blow-by.

    I would favour replating over scrapping - it depends what the cost is against finding new ones or secondhand ones that you don't know anything about.
     
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  9. Which grooves are you feeling with your nails - the horizontal ones or the vertical ones?

    Difficult to tell from the pics but if the bores measure both round and in spec then I'd use them unless it's the vertical grooves you are feeling and they are deep.
     
  10. The grooves I can feel are the vertical ones, they're pretty shallow, but photograph well. I think the other grooves you can see are the very light criss cross honing marks.
     
  11. 13.5 to 1 that's some serious compression hope you are going to put some equally serious head studs in to keep it all together. :anguished:
     
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  12. A quick recap of where I think I've got to:

    -The frame will have a small TIG weld (unless the crack is larger than it looks in the photo) and the Steve Bailey frame brace fitted - bought in 2014 but never fitted.

    -the Wossner pistons are not being fitted. I don't need the extra power, and the compression looks way too high.

    -Original pistons are going back in, with new rings.

    -I need to decide what to do to the cylinders by Tuesday.

    -Just to add some humour to the topic, the shock may be turned around:

    [​IMG]

    (I think someone's pulling my chain with this one)
     
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  13. It it were mine I would give the bores the lightest possible hone to help the rings bed in properly and be sure of a good oil film and good compression.
     
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  14. If you can feel the vertical scores with your fingernail, you are wasting your money if you don't deal with them and just fit new rings - false economy IMO.
     
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  15. As others have said, although costly I would get them replated. My JE compression is quite high, in fact many recommend taking material off the top of the crowns to lower it. I didnt, it pulls like a train.
     
  16. I have front barrel and piston from 2000 900 SSie spare.
     
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  17. Thanks for everyone's replies. I have decided to try and keep the engine standard.

    900SS piston rings are expensive (£167 per set).

    However if you go on Stein Dinse's website they don't even list the original rings:

    Stein-Dinse GmbH Ersatzteillisten

    The replacement are 99 on Monster rings (part 19).

    Original: 12120011B
    Monster: 412805080

    Cost is Euro 79 plus shipping, per set.
    Is there any problem going for the later rings?

    Cylinders will go off to Langcourt after the rings have been installed on the old pistons, so I'm at a standstill until that happens.
     
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  18. Im sure JE do them too, standard pistons that is. Not sure if the later piston rings are the same.
     
  19. You could combine this with a short break in Weston Super Mare, which is always a pleasure.
     
  20. Many happy memories of playing the 2p slot machines on the pier!

    When I spoke to Wossner they did not tell me standard compression pistons were in their range, and my understanding is that the only ones available are the 13.5 compression ones.

    900SS Carb piston rings were ordered from Star Twin yesterday.

    With the cylinders off, is there any way of getting a look at the oil gallery plug? Dentists mirror? Placed where?

    Cheers,

    Humbug
     
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