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Project 999

Discussion in 'Builds & Projects' started by Nasher, Sep 13, 2021.

  1. It's a good thought, but unfortunately doesn't work because the Oil travels along all the gaps between the individual strands of Copper, not just along the outside of the bundle of strands.
    It may work if I ran some solder down the end of the cable to solidify it, and put some really good adhesive heatshrink over the end, but I think I'm always going to be fighting a losing battle.
    I need to stop it getting in there in the first place, and now everything including up inside the cable is covered in Oil it's incredibly difficult to eliminate it all so a sealant like 3Bond will stick to it.

    Despite my usual 'make-do-and-mend' attitude, I know when a new unit will be the best option.
     
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  2. I ordered a new Stator from LN Parts on Ebay in the end.

    I took a chance, it being at the cheaper end of the prices available, but I’m sure they are all made in the same place and LN are just less greedy than other suppliers.

    It looks OK, is really well potted around the internal cable ends, and the outer ends look to be crimped well, but I’ve not got around to fitting it yet.

    Feeling a little despondent with the Stator situation, I thought I’d have a play with something I can be more creative with and see an improvement when it’s done.
     
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  3. As mentioned earlier in the thread I picked up an Aftermarket Racefit exhaust silencer at a price I couldn’t turn down because it was in ‘a bit of a state’.
    I already had a Horizontal cylinder header pipe with no CAT so the silencer got some attention.

    It doesn’t look too bad in these images, just a little corroded.

    RF1.JPG

    RF2.JPG

    RF3.JPG

    RF4.JPG

    RF5.JPG


    I decided I wanted to try and keep some semblance of a standard bike and use the existing rear light and number plate bracket etc.

    Comparing the image below of the underside of the Racefit and Standard silencers it can be seen that the standard parts will not just bolt straight on.

    I did call racefit on the off chance that they might have a bracket left in stock, but discovered there had never been any effort made to accommodate the standard equipment, it was assumed aftermarket indicators and a rear light would be used, and it was suggested a bent bit of Aluminium would do the job.

    Despite the willingness to talk to me, and advise offered on several aspects of a rebuild, I got the impression there was a little ‘bad blood’ flowing somewhere with this silencer, and assume there is a story somewhere to be told.

    Note the Mild steel Rivnuts that have been used in an otherwise all Stainless construction, and that a couple of them, seemingly for the cable assembly heat shield, are missing.
    Annoyingly the holes for these are about 4mm too far apart to fit the Heat Shield and I’ve had to file the holes in the heat shield into slots to fit it.

    RF6 STD RF Comparison.JPG

    As you can imagine, I couldn’t resist starting the bike with the Racefit in place, but it was blowing exhaust gasses out of so many unintentional holes it wasn’t a fair indication of what it would sound like in good condition.

    I ordered some Stainless Steel Pop Rivets and Rivnuts and gave it a better inspection.
     
    #263 Nasher, Feb 28, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  4. Apart from the overall corroded condition there were some more specific areas of concern.

    First off, at the top, right at the place where it shows sticking out of whatever tailpiece is used there is a gap where gas has been escaping.

    RF7 Blowing.JPG

    RF8 Apart Blowing.JPG

    Note it looks like dent, and somebody has tried to seal it up by adding an additional pop rivet, which was unsuccessful.

    Next up were two additional holes drilled in the inlet pipes.

    RF9 Holes.JPG

    They are past where the header pipes insert to, and another member on here confirmed his similar silencer does not have the holes.

    So using a lump of Brass round stock inside the tube as a support for the molten stainless wire I welded the holes up.

    RF10 Holes welded.JPG

    There was also another big hole underneath at the forward end where a pop rivet was missing.

    RF11 Blowing.JPG
     
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  5. With the silencer apart it was obvious that it had only ever been packed really loosely with wadding after the perforated tube had been wrapped with wire wool.

    The gas flow within the silencer had then packed the loose wadding into the sides and it was rock hard in those areas

    RF12 Apart.JPG

    I was however impressed with how much effort had been made with an internal structure to link the top and bottom of the outer sleeve to spread the load and support whatever was hung underneath.

    RF13 Support.JPG

    I took a better look at the gap on the top rear and discovered it wasn’t a dent, but had been fabricated incorrectly from new.
    The very fine TIG welding is nicely done, but the outer part of the end cap has been pulled in creating the gap.

    RF14 Build Error.JPG

    But at least it was easy to put right by cutting and rewelding:

    RF15 Cut.JPG

    RF16 welded.JPG
     
    #265 Nasher, Feb 28, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
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  6. The outer sleeve cleaned up to an acceptable standard, and the inner support went back in with the Stainless Steel pop Rivets and Rivnuts.

    RF17 Outer.JPG

    RF18 Inside.JPG

    To repack it I first used the Blanket type material that is supposed not to disintegrate and blow out the end. It’s also supposed to expand a bit and fill any space as a low melting point bonding agent built in to it melts when first used.
    I wrapped it round each perforated tube twice and put a couple of stitches in place with cotton to hold it in place whilst I worked:

    RF19 Wrapping.JPG

    With the outer sleeve riveted back on I then packed all the gaps with loose fibres using a length of dowel to push it home:

    RF20 Filled.JPG

    All back together it looks much nicer, and when tried on the bike it sounded really nice.
    Although I understand it will sound different after a bit of use.
    I used a smear of Exhaust assembly paste on all the joints as I was putting it back together to help seal it all up.
    At the moment it’s not too loud, probably quieter than the Ducati Performance Remus end cans I have on both my M1000 and 1000SS.

    RF21 Together.JPG

    RF22 Together.JPG

    RF23 Together.JPG
     
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  7. The bracket I fabricated from Stainless Steel flat bar to hold all the standard rear end equipment is a little more complicated than a bent bit of Aluminium, and did involve a couple more Rivnuts being added to the underside.

    RF24 Bracket 1.JPG

    RF25 Bracket 2.JPG

    RF26 Bracket 3.JPG

    I had to spread the number plate bracket out at the base, and give the legs a bit of a bend.
    The upshot of which was that with a standard Number plate light fitted I had to lower the number plate a few mm to fit. This was done by plug welding a stainless plate to the original bracket:

    RF27 Bracket 4.JPG

    I’m pleased with the way it looks on the bike with the standard rear bodywork and Ducati Performance pillion pad eliminator.

    RF28 Fitted.JPG

    RF29 Fitted.JPG

    I now have a spare Subframe to cut up so I can properly try the RS Carbon single seat unit seen earlier in this thread.
    So that’s something else I can play with to avoid dropping the Oil and Coolant to change the Stator.
     
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  8. I didn't get that exact impression Sev, the guy I spoke to was more than happy to talk, actually I struggled to end the conversation.

    He was interested in how it had faired over the years, and ran through the whole story of development, manufacture, how many they made, what they were selling them for etc. He did seem genuinely pleased it was still around and going to be used.

    Thinking back to the conversation, I think he was a little annoyed that he couldn't get past the prejudice of people dismissing anything that didn't have a Termi label on it.
     
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  9. Yup, it’s s weird Ducati-world, great comments.

    Strange isn’t it, that as time has worked its wonders that all those unpopular systems back in the day are now so desirable. HPE, Skorpion, Akra… just lovely stuff.

    But then the 749/999 is almost certainly the nadir for Termignoni. The 749/999 muffler arrangement is/was just an ugly shapeless lump of a thing in comparison to Leo Vince/Akra etc….if only they’d come up with something more like the 999RS muffler.

    Funny, I had a GSXR750WN back in the day, first of the water-cooled models, and fitted a Termi full system…never seen or heard of another one since!
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  10. GAAAAAH! Sorry mate, only read this today, but I probably have something that would have saved you a bit of faffing around:
    FA61F248-652E-4670-AF63-06122994F823.jpeg
    It came with bits of a sort of RS-ish system:
    169C49F5-9AAB-4B0D-BB33-461867E6BE6A.jpeg
    DE2927D2-9598-4490-B3ED-85ABBA340CDC.jpeg
    I’m only ever going to use it as a track bike so you are welcome to the muffler/plate bracket/harness shown above if it’s of any use.

    I’m down in Oz, but no cost to you (or anyone), just cover shipping…apologies for being late to the party: timing is everything and mine sucks!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Funny this, because anyone that's seen the build quality of Termi wouldn't say they were worthy of the accolades they often get.

    That said, I recently took a chance on a HP Corse for my MV and within the first 100 miles the carbon end just burnt through, so had to be replaced, and I had 3 Arrow exhausts on my new style Daytona where the caps burnt through and silencers discolored.

    Nice job on the rear light bracket, looks smart that.
     
  12. That's quite an offer, many thanks.

    Would certainly like to know what the cost would be to send it to the UK.
    If nothing else but to give me another option.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Peasants, behold the unnamed titanium wanger! 255C326A-F500-4A3C-BD3D-36BD170C0D9D.jpeg
     
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  14. Haha, yup, “coal” and “Newcastle” spring to mind.

    You think that’s ugly, you should see how I glued the system together, when I do ugly I do it proper!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Sounds like a grand plan, I mean, what’s not to like:
    1F7B35A7-045F-4DA8-98F6-11970BEA9235.jpeg
    And not a tacky wavey disc in sight…
     
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  16. A couple of better pic’s so you can make a more edumacated decision:

    63FEB365-3FAD-458D-98F7-9D229434C1C2.jpeg EA65A9EF-A31A-46A3-A89F-0C7C8A59A683.jpeg 2855502C-6F20-4B54-939D-253FEDB041AA.jpeg

    No problem for a man of your skills but you’d just have to make a threaded mounting block which the straps tighten against, and then it just mounts from the usual subframe location:
    057BB923-990E-4951-82A6-94EF632DF8C2.jpeg

    CDDD62E5-AECC-4F12-9FFD-52933672DFEC.jpeg

    Shipping looks to be (updated) about 24GBP. Completely understand if it doesn’t suit, or isn’t worth it, just thought I’d mention it.
     
    #276 Seven4nineR, Mar 4, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2022
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  17. This project has annoyingly just been covered up in my workshop for a few weeks due to injury, illness, and other more pressing commitments. But on Friday I managed to get most of the day working on it.

    I swapped out the Stator and appear to have finally cured the Oil leak where it was tracking along the Stator cables and dripping out of the connector block all over the Horizontal Cylinder header pipe.

    I’m hoping it’s the last time I have to drop the Oil and Coolant for a while.
    It was getting expensive, as I couldn’t bring myself to put the old Oil back in each time despite it only doing less than 5 mins on the bench each time.
    The last lot did come out much cleaner than the previous ones though, so the system has had a good flush out.

    The Ebay Stator I brought in the end appears to work well.
    I charged the battery whilst doing the work and with the engine off it was showing 12.95V.
    With the engine running I’m getting 13.6V at Idle so it’s charging at least.
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333269544931?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
     
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  18. I changed the awful aftermarket levers that were on the bike. They are just far too short to get more than a couple of fingers on them, and really don’t suit the bike in my opinion.

    This is what was on it, I couldn’t bring myself to embarrass the bike showing them fitted.

    IMAGE 1.JPG

    The original levers were included with the bike, but they are silver, and again I don’t think they suit the bike. I could have just sprayed them Black, but I know paint would just rub off.

    I purchased a pair of 1098 Black levers from EBAY a while ago so fitted them instead.
    The 1098 activates the Brake Light switch differently, but I swapped the sprung loaded part of the 999 lever on to the 1098 lever and sorted that.
    You can’t see the Silver bit unless you look hard so I’ll just leave it Silver.

    IMAGE 2.JPG

    IMAGE 3.JPG
     
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  19. The bottom front corner of both lower fairings I’m going to use are cracked, so to stop the crack going any further I used some small offcuts of Stainless Steel mesh and epoxy to strengthen the backs of the panels.

    IMAGE 4.JPG

    The Stainless mesh is really useful stuff, I’ve used it several times in situations like this.
    I brought it years ago in a roll to cover the Soffit ventilation gaps in my roof when I replaced all the woodwork a few years ago.
    https://www.robinsonwirecloth.co.uk/online-shop/Soffit-mesh-stainless-steel-30m-roll-p49612077


    The NHM Clutch cover also got a rub down and fresh coat of Matt Black paint, but will need to come off again to do some detail cleaning of the Clutch case behind and around it.
    I also noticed the Clutch Springs have started to rust, so will need to clean them properly.

    IMAGE 5.JPG

    I might even change the cover for something else, but haven’t found another I actually like the look of.
     
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  20. I do still have an electrical issue with the bike somewhere.
    It’s not a new issue, but I was sort of hoping changing the Stator would sort it out and it hasn’t, but I knew that it wouldn’t really and was being lazy.
    So I spent some time investigating.

    As mentioned the battery on the bike was charged to 12.95V, and with the engine running at idle was showing 13.6V both measured with a good quality meter directly across the battery terminals. But the Voltage on the dash is showing 10.95 and 11.20V.

    Assuming the Voltage measurement is generated at the ECU I thought that perhaps I’d forgotten to reattach the separate Earth lead to the ECU body, but on checking it’s in place.

    Bearing in mind I’d started the bike a couple of times and it hadn’t been running long enough to recharge:
    Measuring between the battery +ve and -ve terminals gave 12.5V.
    Measuring between the battery +ve terminal and the ECU body gave 12.5V.
    So I believe the ECU is properly Earthed.
    Measuring between Red/Yellow +ve supply to the ECU and ECU body also gave 12.5V.
    So I believe the ECU is seeing full voltage.

    I also checked the Earth to the Clockset, which appears good.

    So does anyone know for certain where the dash Voltage measurement is generated?
    ECU, or within the Dash?
     
    #280 Nasher, Mar 28, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2022
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