Got an oberon on my hyper 1100. Mines also got a beringer master as well.... Can operate my clutch with one finger....as someone else said. Start with the simple stuff first...
Don't expect totally silent operation after the magical 'quiet clutch' mod V, as said at the weekend, with clutch pulled in, plates are still free to jangle around no matter what order they are in, it's only luck of the draw re: wear on drum/plates plus stack height that might make things more quiet when clutch pulled in. Aluminium or steel plates/drum make a difference also.
Does your master cylinder alter the ratio of master to slave even more? If so, do you not get drag? You don't get something for nothing and you will already be losing some movement of the pressure plate with the Oberon slave.
Indeed. My clutch has a distinct jangle when the clutch lever is pulled in. I don't mind that at all though, it's the loud metal on metal chattering of the stack oscillating in the basket slots and bashing notches in them while rounding off the edges of the tabs at the same time that offends my sensibilities.
Not sure what you mean...i dont get any drag and its light as a feather....but then the beringer master is fuck-off expensive...
The stainless Barnet baskets are quite a lot louder than the original. Its a real bang as well. But they last a lot longer.
When I say you don't get something for nothing, I am referring to the trade off between lightness of lever and movement of the pushrod and pressure plate. There are basically two ways to achieve a light lever. One is to reduce the pressure from the springs and the other is to alter the ratio between master and slave cylinder. Each has a downside. The downside of reducing spring pressure is the risk of clutch slip. The downside of altering the master to slave ratio is the risk of clutch drag. A hydraulic clutch relies on the incompressibility of the fluid to transfer the movement of the lever to the pushrod and pressure plate. If this were direct, on a one to one basis, the lever would be too heavy to move. However, the master cylinder and slave cylinder have different size pistons, so a large movement of the master piston produces a much smaller movement of the slave piston and the resulting mechanical advantage means the lever movement requires relatively little effort. Ducati have chosen sizes of master and slave that give what they judge to be appropriate compromise between lightness of lever and sufficient movement of the pressure plate to allow the plates to separate enough to allow zero clutch drag. They have probably built in a little extra margin to allow for imperfect bleeding. Oberon and others supply an aftermarket slave cylinder with a bore-size that gives a lighter lever than the oem one. The downside is that this inevitably translates to less movement of the pressure plate for a given movement of the lever, increasing the likelihood of drag. I am guessing that your aftermarket master cylinder alters the ratio of master to slave even more, resulting in even less movement of the pressure plate for a given movement of the lever. This will therefore increase the likelihood of clutch drag even more, hence my question. If you are indeed doubling up on altering the master cylinder to slave cylinder ratio to get a super-light clutch lever and you can get neutral at rest with no problem, you must be very good indeed at bleeding your clutch hydraulics.
A very concise description of the pros and cons of which i think i understand but....im pretty sure ive got neither....the clutch is featherlight, ive got no drag (that i know of) and i can find neutral easily...the only issue i get now and again is the dry clutch plates grabbing as ive got a slipper (which doesnt really change that) but, as i tend to service the clutch every 1k or so i regrease the plates and they are gradually getting better and better....
Getting neutral at rest is what counts. You must have a very good bleeding technique. Some people do use the lithium grease mod to avoid grabbiness and it does work but you have to be brave to try it. Basically, you just smear all your friction plates with white lithium grease, wipe off the excess and bake in the oven at 200c until the smoke stops. If you have a slipper clutch, you are almost certainly putting a friction plate in first already.
With regards to bleeding i dont do it any special way....bit of pipe on the oberon....pull the lever, open the nipple at the bottom and then tighten, release the lever and then repeat.....i just keep going til i cant see anything...from an air bubbles point of view.
After reading all that, I surmise that as my slave and master are standard fair there should not be any drag but I do get drag and the muscles in my left arm are getting bigger by the day pulling on that clutch lever, waiting on delivery of my oberon 29mm slave once fitted will go from there I have been advised bleed from top once all air is out then bleed the bottom at the slave.
If you are getting drag your stack height is to high. Fitting an aftermarket slave may well make it worse as the sacrifice movement distance for ease of movement. I'm sure @RickyX will see you right. I found it a bit trial and error to get mine right, had to keep adjusting but luckily it's quick once you get used to it.
Imho, that is a bit of a sweeping statement, CR. I know you found stack height to be critical with your slipper clutch but I really don't think that's normally the case and if something other than stack height is the problem, reducing it won't help. With my bike, it was the new aftermarket friction plates jamming in the basket slots as the motor warmed up that was causing drag and no amount of reducing stack height helped. Although it did give me a lovely light lever with the reduced preload on the springs and as I was getting no slip, I kept it like that. The usual cause of drag imho, is air in the fluid and efficient bleeding should cure that. However, CS has a heavy lever, so it may be that the stack height is high, as that would increase preload on the springs and make it difficult for the pressure plate to lift enough for the plates to separate properly. If that is the case, as you say, the Oberon slave will make the drag worse. As someone else said, the distance from the top plate to the top of the basket slot is more important than the actual stack height and if there is no slip, I would definitely recommend going for lower rather than higher, although I know you with your slipper clutch got slip if you went lower. Also, it's a good idea to make sure the pushrod is well greased, as that can be a source of friction, which would add to lever stiffness.
The usual source of drag will be air in the fluid, which compresses when you pull the lever, robbing the pressure plate of movement.
