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Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by rodericb, Jan 8, 2019.
Nah.. you angry fella meesta aircon
all the workshop battery tools charging point is right next to my desk.
mmm v,toasty sitting eer.
How about this...
Now we love us a bit of knowledge on the forum we do... so..
In this 'ere technical forum, why not start a thread once and for all as the definitive "Ducati and Lithium Batteries thread"
Differences Between a lithium and conventional battery
pro's and cons
Why it is not advisable to fit a Lithium Battery to my stock OEM factory wiring Ducati
What I would need to do to my Ducati in order to fit a Lithium Battery if it does not come with one from the factory
and I'm sure @El Toro would make it a sticky as its a recurring subject.
That way, it's always at the top of the Tech forum, and everyone can link to it as the goto place for whenever this question comes up as a recurring topic.
Might be worth doing that for a range of subjects that come up regularly actually so they don't take up bandwidth, and stops people having to trawl through loads of threads.
what ya reckon?
I’m happy to use the Shorai Lithium IRON battery along with updated mosfet reg/rect on an older model bike. My choice.
One of the reasons is, the IRON version of the lithium batteries is a lot more stable and runs cooler. ( Not to argue, but just to say don’t put the same stigma on all types if lithium battery) A bit of info from a few years ago,
Sounds like a wicked idea, it's why I really pushed to allow anyone to tag a thread.... in the early days it was "why doesn't my Mutley have a back brake".
And just to reiterate my advice in the first and every thread since.... my concern isn't lithium per say, but the charging circuits on certain models of Ducati, specifically the location of the heat sink components.
I would also advise against over and under sized lead acid batteries, without investigation into regulator temperatures during actual running conditions.
Super Quick Ducati Advice
1/ Fit upgraded cables to the battery to bike frame, battery to starter solenoid and starter solenoid to starter motor. If the starter motor has an earth strap upgrade that.
2/ Over winter remove batteries and charge once a month or If you prefer, fit the correct / recommended battery tender. Especially important for bikes with alarms/trackers.
3/ If the Ducati has the regulator / rectifier located near the exhaust, relocate it to a cooler location, like the rear number plate hanger. IMHO I believe it will increase the life of said component and reduce any fire risk.
4/ For a reliable motorcycle consider that all batteries are a consumable, with a finite usable charge / discharge cycle rate and overall lifetime. I replace them every five years or earlier.
5/ If you are considering changing the battery away from the OEM consider any impact this may have on the charging circuit, specifically the temperature of the regulator and/or the effect on the proposed battery.
a) Charging currents / against voltage.
b) Any over current / Voltage protection you may need to add.
c) Low battery voltage protection (a disconnect circuit) to prevent excessive current during charging from low.
These Big V twins hammer batteries during starting; like diesels did for most us when we took government advice (incentives) and upgraded our cars from petrol.
I've had a Magneti Morelli LiFePO4 battery on my monster for about 4yrs now.
The reg/rec is an electrex replacement for the original (which failed and boiled the original battery dry due to overcharging) and is located in full cooling airflow under the bottom yoke.
The reg/rec cooling has been ever so slightly improved by relocating an adjacent multiconnector which had formerly masked the airflow on one side.
The battery weighs a staggering 5.5kg less than the original and this is just too tempting a weight loss to ignore.
Also, the reduced size means I can now carry a tyre plugging kit on the bike in the freed-up space.
So now to the main point ..
It seems to me that overcharging is where the potential danger lies with lithium batteries.
Is it not possible therefore, to add in an over-voltage protection circuit which would isolate the battery in the event of the system attempting to overcharge it ? (perhaps with a warning light to indicate when/if the system becomes operational, so you know what's going on when your electrics fail) ?
In other words, the bike would then fail to a safe position (ie conk out) rather than to an inferno (ie not ideal but the lesser of two evils).
This seems (to my not-particularly-electrically-minded brain) to be a simple and effective way to avoid potential fire hazard associated with lithium batteries.
I have asked this question many times before, both here and elsewhere, but as yet I have not found the answer.
Worth another try though, I reckon.
Any electrical wizard advice on the above would be very gratefully received.
I'd hate to be in Politics (like @finm), it's amazing how people repeat bits and either intentionally or not, then miss the actual message / words as written.
It was the regulator/rectifier that caught alight to the battery tray on the fire I attended to on a road/race style Ducati a couple of years back.
It happened to have a Lithium battery attached and was the first time the bike had been ridden since the battery was fitted.
So if you’ve got a quality shindengen mosfet reg/rect fitted thats designed to be more stable and run cooler and a lithium IRON battery thats more stable and runs cooler. And you’ve got airflow to it.
What is it that ducati are now doing on the latest bikes thats different?
Better circuitry/electronics, better wiring........?
have you read the Links of post #41
Please don't take this the wrong way, but is this available in English?
have you tried google translater, what do you want to know
here a wiring diagramm
That's the sort of thing; not sure that the wires in the picture could handle 30A for very long
Your reg/rec manufacturer states do not use Lithium, the main problem isn’t over charging, what would your insurance company say to that do you think tell you what, tell them these facts and let us know what they say
It has been tried before Didn’t work
No, I hadn't read those links.
But that is precisely the sort of device that I had in mind.
I'm overjoyed, tbh.
Nice one .. thanks a lot.
Utopia, Exige is referring to this from Electrex, which was in post 12