No one has had the chance to say they want to leave before,so staying for 40 years was not through choice. Maybe you are so young all you ever heard was EU propaganda,or maybe you come from a country which is recent to the EU and has been given EU bribes to join.(No one said to us that the EC would grow from the original 6 countries that we jumped into bed with) So you are bound to have a different view from those of us who were sold a bad deal back in the day. Airbus is 20% owned by BaE,and unless they sell it the wings will still be made here. The reason F1 teams are in the UK is because the expertise is here,you think Mercedes stays in the UK for loyalty or something? The EU will trade with us because the French own the UK water companies,the Germans build the trains,and the Brits holiday in Europe more than anywhere else. If you think that trade is harmonised between countries,you are wrong. There are common regulations and standards that each countries designs have to meet,but setting up companies,tax regimes,many employment conditions,traffic laws,road charging,minimum wages...the list of differences is endless. Only massive companies and organisations know all the rules.(another EU desire seems to be that only big companies matter...idiots) Eastern European countries have received huge subsidies from the EU to modernise their infrastructure,so that they can undercut the industries of those countries that funded the subsidies..more idiocy! I would bet that many of the original EEC citizens would vote out if they were given the chance,thats why their Governments will never ask them
Something else to add....If we Brexit and the EU get the hump and penalise us through import/export, the £ will drop in value and our products will then become irresistable cheap on the world market (including the EU). Swings and roundabouts Anyway, the most accurate statement so far is that the EU need the UK more than the UK needs the EU. They are taking a huge gamble at the mo. I personally hope we call their bluff........but then it would be too late for them to reform and retain UK as a member (maybe?).
1% paid in pretty much 1% back. i never got an answer but investment to the regions without Westminster control? (currently running with a mandate from what % of the population?) v.democratic. health and safety/ human rights laws, the curse of big business. free trade free movement the ability to help smaller poorer countries invest and reduce the need for long term aid. (hungry people can become quite irrational don't you know) peace. that will do for starters. it appears the younger population are more involved in Europe. the older more suspicious of Europe.(immigration) the older ones moan about it but never got involved or insisted there governments do more to shape it. and now they want out. and their feart of immigration.
Best reply so far. Old ones did nothing to help or stop it shape to what it is now. They suddenly do not like it and want out. Do not ruin it for rest of us, you had a go and you fucked it up. That is the best argument.
Its not, its a simplistic, one-sided and naive argument that doesn't begin to cover one scintilla of the issues. Those who want out of Europe aren't ruining anything for the rest of you. If you want the EU, carry on. You know where it is. We're not stopping you. But many people don't and they're happy to settle the matter democratically. Don't ruin democracy for the rest of us.
"there are none so blind as those that will not see..." I note that you do not answer the points made by others,but have jumped straight to abusive comment about those who have a different opinion. Personally,I have not,"suddenly",decided I want out of the EU. I realised that joining was a big mistake in 1978,on my first working trip to Europe,when I had to pay,"coffee money",to a French customs official in Calais in order to get my carnet stamped. No one,I repeat,no one ,has given the British citizen the opportunity to vote on whether to stay in the EU,since we joined in the Seventies. There was therefore no chance of making my voice heard until now. It may well be that the vote is for staying in:I will accept that,in the same way as I accept the democratic view of the British voting public when they elect a Government that is not my choice. That is democracy,and in or out the world will still turn,the sun will still rise,and the majority of people lives will change very little. I'm not criticising you for being young enough to have known nothing else. Please do not abuse me for being old enough to have existed,and experienced,life both before and during our membership of the EU.
i didnt see any abuse in lucs reply? another difference between between the age groups? :Hilarious::smileys:. also a wee bit of pots and kettles going on there.
"Old ones did nothing to help or stop it shape to what it is now" "Do not ruin it for rest of us, you had a go and you fucked it up" Fin,the clues are in the "old",which I have admitted to being,and the ""you",("you" fucked it up). If you can find an instance where I have accused the Lucaz of being anything I'd appreciate it. I did ask him whether he was young or from another country,( he did not reply to either),the inference being that this may be one reason why to he holds a different view to my own. We have different opinions: I replied to the specific points he raised,and added a few more that I thought relevant,and he did not reply in kind.
its a language barrier thing. i knew what he meant. thats how we speak now. there was no malice. i wont get in to the other. it wont end well. it never does :smileys:
Not like you to back away from an opportunity to misinterpret the English language Fin. Whats up mate,not feeling too good?
thats what you like to think. not your fault. you have been programmed that way. :Angelic::smileys:. i don't doubt for a minute that most on this thread will know more about the macro economics of Europe than me. if it aint working for yah speak to your representatives. but Europe is so much more than that. the potential is amazing. re redistribution of wealth alone i would say its more successful than Westminster has ever been.
Ah,Fin that's a new question. You stated that older people were more suspicious of immigration. They were not.They experienced it,and apart from isolated incidents* where less well-off people were concerned for their own prospects,welcomed,or at least tolerated,immigration. An anecdote from my own experience,(which I may have already mentioned in another thread,if so,I apologise): My Aunt,widowed during the war,married a German ex-POW shortly after the end of hostilities. They still live in the same council,(they have probably bought it by now), house,in the same very small village in Bedfordshire,that they moved into in the Forties.This was at a time when even returning British squaddies could not get a council house for their families. You would have thought that this would lead to some resentment...small village/Foreigner/ex-enemy,etc. My Uncle was 90 last year,and at his party after a few beers he suddenly started making a speech about how lucky he was,how he had never met any animosity from the English in his entire life,and how proud he was to have lived here and brought up his many children in a country as tolerant and as peaceful as ours. He is also staunchly,and proudly,German,not shy about displaying his war memorabilia or telling stories about fighting in Normandy and other theatres against the British and other Allied nations. There are an awful lot of Italian and German ex-pow's/post war immigrants living in Bedfordshire,as are a great number of eastern Europeans. There are no riots or protests,young and old seem to rub along quite nicely thank you very much. *The ones that the BBC love to show,and pretend socialists point to,as evidence that the common Englishman is racist to his very core.
