Migrants will still be able to send child benefit home FFS. But it really isn't about migrants, it is about sovereignty.
Basic Ecomonics Fracking produces oil / gas - this increases the quantity available Basic laws of supply and demand, the greater the quantity supplied the lower the price Low prices whilst isis are selling oil at $25 a barrel may render fracking uneconomic in the short term but at some point it will be economic to frack Whether fracking is good or bad is open for people to argue about but myself, there is insufficient real information in the public domain for me to make an informed choice
An interesting quote from Peter Lilley (ex. minister under Major) questioning the legality of restricting in-work benefits to EU migrants. I'm concerned that some people will just hear the words and not unnderstand the reality. This would be just so typical of the EU by seeming to give tiny concessions that come to nothing: Speaking on the BBC, he said: “We were told that we couldn’t introduce reforms like this because they conflicted with the treaty. If that’s the case, then these reforms will conflict with the treaty and within a few months of their being applied someone will apply to the European Court of Justice and they’ll be found to be incompatible with the treaty and struck down. “If, alternatively, we were misled all the while and they are compatible with the treaty, we don’t need these negotiations, we could have introduced them ourselves immediately or last year or the year before. “So I’m puzzled by this and I hope we’ll receive greater clarification on whether this is actually viable in the long run or whether we could have done this in the past anyway."
All this will be null and void within five years anyway when the new treaty to create the United States of Europe, work on which is under way, is ratified. If the EU still exists by then. I think it is doubtful. We have to bear in mind that Cameron has been practising the slickest expectation management here. All the red lines he mooted in his Bloomberg speech have been abandoned. Every single one. Europe told him he had no chance. So he asked them what he would get away with and then he took that back to Britain insisting that these are in fact the changes which the British public have been demanding. Which of course is complete fiction. He doesn't know what the British public want because he hasn't asked them and is working frantically to avoid doing so. He will now trumpet his non-existent reforms as a great triumph of British influence and public opinion in reforming the EU. Which is also utter fiction. An early referendum isn't going to help him though. There is no chance whatever that the migrant invasion crisis will have begun to be addressed let alone solved by that time. When spring arrives the onslaught will restart with a vengence. Mainland Europe is only a few months away from bloodshed and public disorder. Schengen will have collapsed and the non-existence of EU unity will have become impossible to hide. All just in time for the referendum.
so it is about immigration. (this is where the scotland bill is gonna break down) can someone point me to where the info is regarding loss of sovereignty and ever closer union? all denied on news night last night night.
Of course its all about about sovereignty. The inability to control our own borders is simply one among many of the consequences of surrendering that sovereignty. It is the most visible and the most obvious consequence to ordinary people and a deterioration in that particular situation (and it will deteriorate, drastically) will only underline the UK's powerlessness to manage its own affairs and that will reinforce in many people the need to regain that power when it comes to the referendum. "Its all about immigration" is a bald, catch-all, meaningless repetition of a phrase learned by rote without any understanding. Look at the detail in Tusk's statement. Its not hard to find. Its all over the news media, TV, newspapers, on-line, everywhere - probably even in Scotland. Every single one of Mr Cameron's rag-bag of piffling concessions, (every one of his original structural reforms were abandoned months ago) whether its restricting certain types of benefit payments for a few months or "opting out" of ever closer union, will be discretionary. Other EU member states, that is people whom the British electorate have not and cannot vote for or hold to account, will decide if and when any of these inconsequential tweaks can be implemented and when they shall be withdrawn again. They are not reforms at all. They are minor, non-binding changes to bureaucratic procedure only. And in any case they will be swept away by the next treaty which is on the way. THis changes nothing. Britain will still not be able to govern itself in its own interests; it will remain constrained to being governed in the interests of the EU.
nah, the media up here are to busy slagging off 50%+ of the population and doing every thing in its power to remove sovereignty/home rule for the Scots to be bothered reporting on the EU. considering the tax plans the camoron is trying to impose on us via the Scotland bill, closing the boarders to the EU might be no bad thing.hmm need to ponder that a while. still voting in tho. :smileys: sure you just dont like immigrants? the little reporting i do see seems to imply it.
The focus is upon immigration because it is an emotive subject and, unlike the other demands, there is the prospect of gains, albeit very small gains, to be made. They are being allowed to choose the ground upon which to fight their sham battle.
Cameron has achieved nothing during these negotiations, nothing that will ever carry weight with the people who originally wanted to leave anyway. He tried but frankly I think he knew early on he was on a hiding to nowhere. It's not enough and it's done nothing to change my mind, I'll still be voting to leave.
This piece says it all UK-EU deal: What the rest of Europe thinks - BBC News with Britain being called a dwarf without the eu by Belgium MEP (of all people) to then entirety contradicting himself by saying that the EU without Britain isn't a counterweight to the likes of China, Russia or the United States. Which is it then you word muddling buffoon? I hardly think you can compare Belgium and the UK It's also quite telling by the rest of the comments either via MEP's (justifying the jobs they hold) but also some of the foreign press pretty much stating what we have already, it's all show and theatre. Simply too many individuals wanting to achieve their own agenda for my liking, it proves that the likelihood of a favourable vote for any of these concessions in the future (emergency brake) is nil Pointless waste of time
So it really is a "draft proposal" to be used as a basis for further negotiation. Ha ha. It just gets more and more pathetic.
I thought this was a pretty strong doomsday scenario but having just read an article in the Telegraph, I have to be inclined to agree that the EU could be seriously damaged by our exit and other countries may look to follow suit under the increasing tensions caused by an uncontrolled migration crisis. And it may lead to a change in the Scottish opinion that could undermine the SNP's emboldened appetite for a new referendum. Heard Alex Salmond on the radio today and he is not hiding his bitterness very well! Sending him down here to London was a cruel price to pay for keeping the UK united. A British exit from the European Union could see the UK becoming a "safe haven" amid a disintegrating Europe, Barclays has said. Analysis from the bank said a 'leave' vote would open a "Pandora's Box" in the crisis-hit continent, and could dissuade Scotland from breaking away from the relative safety of the UK. Barclays said financial markets had failed to grasp the sheer "breadth" of the British vote, calling it one of "the most significant global risks of the year", and one which could lead to the collapse of the European project.
close call Might Scotland Vote to Leave the UK if the UK Votes to Leave the EU? - What Scotland Thinks
The EU is doomed anyway. The UK will of course get the blame for the project's demise if we vote to leave, but a leave vote will only hasten the inevitable, it will not be the root cause. That die is already cast. All the more reason to get out before the collapse occurs than waiting to be swept out by it.
Apparently, The Prime Minister warned backbenchers not to take a view on the vote “because of what your constituency association might say”. I am going off David Cameron.
Glad to see you've finally moved up from your Early Learning books Fin Is that where you got your parochial attitude from? :Cigar:
