Trail Breaking And Counter Steer

Unless you are racing come off the brake before you turn. It will be safer for you.

If you are racing then brake to the apex mostly, then it's back on the gas as you pick the bike back up. Increase the gas the more vertical you get.

 

Try doing it on a mountain bike at 15mph plus. I say try; there is no other way to actually turn it.

 

Agree, except how can you learn to do it for racing if you don't try it before

 

Didn't get you post. Turn right, and you are suggesting the wheel is pointing right: its not. Unless its under about 10mph

 

I agree. At very low speeds, up to a certain MPH (which depends on the bike), countersteering is not the only possible way of steering. Above that critical speed countersteering becomes essential, whether used consciously or unconsciously.

 

In which case, call Hawkins! You've found a hole in physics as we know it

 

I've never looked that far into it lol

 

I was taught counter steering by my instructor on my motorcycle training and have used it ever since (I'm not fast and no racer) but speaking to a fair few other bikers they weren't taught it

 

I wouldn't put people off trail braking as it does make you faster on track and becomes instinctive after a while.if you come off the brakes in a straight line you take the load off the front giving less tyre for the turn and upsetting the bike. I personally don't let go of the front brake until the apex then I'm adding small amounts of thottle coming out of the turn. Before you know it you're at full throttle and carrying more speed than ever.

 

Yeah countersteering is to initiate the turn, and then the front wheel turns back into the direction of the turn slightly.

 

Physics denote that we all countersteer, some more pronounced than others yes. It if we didn't we wouldn't get around any corner be it superbike or push bike..
if you ride a cycle in a straight line and then wish to turn right, by Turning the handlebars to the right the fulcrum point would pivot and throw the weight of the bike to the outside of the corner ... you then crash.. if you correctly push on the right bar a little as you approach the corner the pivot moves the weight to the inside of the corner but your front wheel points to the outside of the corner.. the greater you push on that inside bar the more you correctly drop in to the corner..

In simple terms just check out a speedway bike! That is counter steering albeit in its most extreme form.. they are turning left yet the front wheel is facing the other way! But this is CS, we all do it naturally just more pronounced by some..


The perfect example in pic above , the front bike has it right with the weight to the inside etc whilst the rear rider has it wrong...

 

Good point from @camelfarmer above about what happens after the bike leans in. It's physically impossible to turn into a corner without counter steering but I can never quite work out what happens after the bike drops in; does the wheel stay counter steered like in the speedway picture or does it straighten up a little?

if you do circles or figure of eights (or roundabouts!) to practice your counter steering you can remove the outside hand all together and just rest it on your knee and push on the inside bar. The bike drops down in direct relation to how much you push on the bar, which feels like the steering is like in the speedway picture that @Noods put up above. It takes so little actual bar movement that it's near impossible to see on a video.

 

Never raced but my habit on the road is to pick the bike up by accelerating out of the turn.

I do something very similar on the road but probably to a much lesser degree.

 

It's not all black and white of course and there are many variables.

Under heavy braking the front tyre is squashed and that make the turn-in more difficult so beginning the turn after the tyre has returned to normal shape will make the turn better.

This is under extreme circumstances when riding very hard.

 

The speedway bike is oversteering, rather than countersteering, as the rear wheel is spinning up and not in line with the direction of travel.

 

Although that also unload the front, while ch is not what you want ideally

 

I did say it was an extreme example.. but, if you watch Marquez and co that is exactly what they do, bang it down the box as they near the point of entry, the engine braking and the fact that the weight is now towards the front due to normal braking makes the rear spin up and helps or indeed benifits the rider to turn in to the corner ( due to the fact that he is now beginning to counter steer and his weight is now on the indside) faster and tighter on the account that the rear is helping in such a way.. also if you think about driving a car into a corner at speed, for instance, turning left, where does your body weight go? To the drivers door or outside of the turn, which is the complete opposite to what happens with your bike or should do... on a bike, be it push bike on motorbike your weight goes to the inside which is what the pivot or headstock does.. I used to race grasstrack with Jeremy Doncaster, up against the likes of Martin Hagon and co back in the 80s, I then dabbled with riding speedway but just didn't have the funds so became One of JDs mechanics instead.. there's not really such a thing as oversteer on a bike it's just that with speedway they are on shale rather than tarmac, with little grip, without brakes, and only one gear.. watch Casey Stoner, is he over steering round what is now Stoners corner at Philip island ? No, he's dropped it in as described and then uses the power of the bike at the rear wheel to continue through the remainder of the corner by using his throttle and balls to almost steer the bike by the rear tyre.. as we all know the danger with this can often then be a high side, but, these guys have the skill and bravery to push the boundaries of what we all do albeit to a lesser degree..