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916 Varese Bikes - I Just Don't Get It - But I'm Coming Around

Discussion in '748 / 916 / 996 / 998' started by West Cork Paul, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. For me which factory should make no difference but first model of course always holds better value, as i have seen with other bikes, like the Suzuki rgv250 first model.
     
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  2. You got it :):upyeah:
     
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  3. Agree the value is determined by a 1994 Mono Strada Single Seat with all the correct early model parts as discussed in previous posts, being built in Varese confirms they are the early models but if they had been built in Bologna in 1994 they would still have the same value. When I sold mine I didn’t mention Varese, just an early 1994 Strada, that was enough to suggest the value.
     
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  4. Exactly :):upyeah:
     
  5. Must get the reading glasses out. Thought you two were actually agreeing on something
     
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  6. It's the forum against Mike at the moment :(, but Mike's cool :cool::upyeah:
     
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  7. Mike owns a 1994 Strada ... that’s good enough for me too...
     
  8. Your right, should have got my glasses. I can’t keep up with all this, it’s got more drama than Coronation Street. Anyway. Everybody wants the first or the last but there only ever worth what somebody is willing to pay.:upyeah:
     
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  9. I have a early 95 Biposto which has most parts date stamped 94. It arrived in the UK in January 95. It was NOT made in Varese. Below is the letter from Ducati as proof.

    Dear Mr. Akorenika,

    I am contacting you with the feedback I have received from the appropriate department.

    The bike in question is a 916 Biposto England MY1995, sold to the English importer Three Cross Motorcycles LTD on January 27, 1995, and registered to the first owner on February 11 of the same year. Frame and engine serial numbers match, and they are same of when the motorcycle left the factory. This bike was produced in 258 pieces in 1995. It is part of the 916 production started in Ducati Motor Holding from January 1995, and has nothing to do with the 916 produced in 1994 in Cagiva, in Varese.

    With reference to the specifications of the bike, you should find them in the owner’s manual, if you do not have it, please let me know that I will ask for a PDF copy.

    We remain at your disposal if you have any further questions.
    Best regards,

    Carlotta


    Ducati Support
    Ducati Motor Holding Spa
    Borgo Panigale – Italy
    www.ducati.com
     
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  10. Cool - it is very likely they started Biposto production first at the factory and continued with the Varese mono bikes further into 1995 as there are quite a few '95 MY Varese mono's around - some of which will have been produced in 1994 of course. Most '95 model year bikes will have '94 date stamps on them due to the new model year ramp up that takes place every year from about September onwards.
    Good info :):upyeah:
     
    #171 Exige, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  11. Not all 1994 bikes (made by Cagiva) were monopostos, most were biposto, I think we established that several pages above.

    @Akorenika my 1999MY 748 (bought by me in July of that year) has pretty much every piece that’s date stamped, stamped 98, except one of the seat pads which dates back to 96 iirc. I am sure that most of the bikes assembled in 95 would have 94 stamped on a lot of things as I would have thought Ducati would have ordered those parts in in bulk and then just been taking them from the various parts bins. For your bike to have been sold to 3Cross on Jan 27 I’m guessing it would have to have started being assembled before Christmas 1994 which brings me back to when exactly was the fire? When did they move production and when did they move back? Either way, yours is a very early one too:upyeah:
     
  12. Did we establish that regarding biposto's? :thinkingface:
    The letter above from Ducati states manufacturing started in January 1995 at Ducati btw :eyes:
     
  13. 1994 Bipostos made at Varese? Yes indeed, according to Falloon.

    2020-06-20 07.38.09.jpg
     
    #174 TNR, Jun 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  14. Hmm, ok.... so any factory Monoposto with cagiva graphics & elephants ? in that case could we stretch that to include 1995, '96 & '97 Stradas.
    They all have the P8 ecu, ali subframe, probably Öhlins rear shock...
     
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  15. Think Falloon says the Biposto was introduced in 1995 - made in 94 for 95 launch. Don’t think you’ll find a 94 Biposto, might be wrong.
     
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  16. This is a great post because I'm under the impression that some 916 production restarted back at the Bologna plant in August 1994 (told to me by a bloke who is looking at starting his own Ducati 916 vintage race team and has factory connections).
    Part of the Varese story is the P8 ECU, Pankl rods and fairing rivets fitted to early bikes, and going by my 94-95 Ducati workshop manual we can see the 95 Biposto (made in Bologna and Varese ?) was not fitted with either, thus alluding to the fact only Varese mono bikes had these parts.
    If anyone has the Official Ducati 916 Workshop Manual for the 96-97 bikes showing what ECU's and con rods were fitted it should give us an idea if this is true. If P8 ECU's and Pankl rods were fitted to the Bologna mono bikes then the only real difference between Varese and Bologna 916's may be the fairing rivets on the very first bikes off the production line at Varese.
    Ducati Manual 30062020.jpg
    Ducati 916 94 95 Spec30062020.jpg
     
    #177 Mike378, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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  17. Personally I can’t see 2400 odd biposto were made in 94 in Varese and then held back for sale in 95 so I would have thought there must be some out there :thinkingface:

    Taking @Mike378 ’s post above into account what exactly were the differences between the 1994 model and the 95 model ?
     
  18. Also, a question about VINs. I thought those bikes assembled in Varese had a V in the frame VIN, someone above said that was only for the US destined bikes so how do we definitively determine a bike was assembled in Varese? Is it by its sequential frame number only? Did Ducati keep a sequential frame number system or did they make a jump eg “ok Luigi, we’re back home now so just start all the frame numbers at 3000” Also, some bikes must have had assembly started at Varese and finished at Bologna or else there are bikes that were assembled in Varese the same time Bologna re-opened and bikes were bring assembled there ie some overlap because I think it would be logistically impossible to cease assembly in one place on a Friday, move everything over the weekend and start again on a Monday in a new place :thinkingface:.

    All of which (plus all the previous posts) is making me think the enhanced value of early 916s is due to the fact they were from the first year of manufacture PLUS originality. I suspect if @Akorenika were to sell his bike it would fetch a similar price to one from 1994 (assuming its all original or has all the original parts available).
     
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  19. I'm actually trying to figure out if there really are any unique parts were fitted to the very early bikes from Varese (the 'tells'), or if these so called 'unique parts' were really fitted on all early Bologna and Varese 916's, possibly up until 1996 when Cagiva sold Ducati to Texas Pacific.

    So far the only very early Varese 'tells' that I'm fairly sure about are the fairing and screen rivets, and the fact the steering damper rubbed on the front of the petrol tank.

    It's possible that other suggested unique parts to the Varese 916's such as the P8 ECU'S, Pankl rods, blue oil cooler fittings, shorter chain guard and the wider petrol tank may have been fitted on Bologna made 916's too.

    Edit - These are some of the 'tells' and provenance to check on an early 916's -
    (1) VIN number
    (2) Decal under seat unit stating month and year of manufacture.
    3) P8 ECU
    4) Pankl con rods
    5) Fairing Rivets
    6) Windscreen Rivets
    7) Steering damper rubbing on the petrol tank
    8) Shorter Chain Guard
    9) Blue anodised oil cooler pipe fittings
    10) 'Ducati Racing' embossed on the rear wheel hub.
    11) Cagiva Markings on any part including the windscreen (up to 1996).
    12) 916 Petrol tank wider and more sculptured.
    13) Non adjustable front brake and clutch levers on some models.
    14) Single bolt clip-on handle bars.
    15) 40mm brake caliper mounting bolt hole center spacings.
    16) Black coloured mirrors
    17) Airbox without internal 'bumps'
    18) Air intake tubes
     
    #180 Mike378, Jun 30, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020
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