What A Tragedy At Shoreham Airshow

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by JenC, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. There is little to no G in a dive only when you pull out of the dive. Are you suggesting he blacked out under low G and work up as the G increased ?

    A normal loop is flown under fairly constant G and is circular. The fact he held the dive off the top off the loop suggested that he was low on airspeed and wanted to regain some airspeed to get control authority before pulling out. Unfortunately he ran out of space to complete the manoeuvre, pulled hard back, entered a high speed stall and pancaked into the deck.
    Prior to a stall the wing will often buffet, at 0:25 into that vid there was a sudden increase in the angle of attack, the wings rocked and the jet mushed / pancaked flat and level into the deck, at that point it wasn't flying normally, I believe it was deep stalled.

    The only rational alternative explanation is engine failure for which there is no evidence that I can see.
     
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  2. This what you can do with high alpha (angle of attack) and high thrust, something the Hunter does not have.


    The F16 is no longer being supported by lift from it's wings but a combination of lift and thrust from the engine, it is semi stalled. It is also under fly by wire computer control. Imagine what it would do if it began to loose power, that is what the Hunter did from 0:25 on.
     
    #82 johnv, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  3. Whatever caused it, I doubt an aircraft of that age had a flight recorder/black box, so it will be difficult to establish the cause as so much of it is destroyed.
     
  4. Nope.........Only recently a motorcyclist blacked out on a downhill near where I live and was killed as he went through the front of a timber framed house.....

    .......there was nothing much in the way of G Forces at work there.

    But there is a chance the pilot of the Hunter blacked out at high level and just managed to get the plane into the dive at the top of the climb.

    Don't you think that if engine failure or some other mechanical event had occurred, or even if the pilot had realised he had cocked up, there would have been at least an 'Oh Shit!' over the comms?

    All speculation as is everyone's view, including yours.

    BTW....The Hunter does not have a black box.

    Roger, over and out.
     
    #84 Ghost Rider, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2015
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  5. Aviate, navigate, communicate...
    He was too busy trying to aviate to do the other two.
     
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    #86 johnv, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2015
  7. Wilco........That's where I get some of my auto stuff from....... 10:4;)

    The motorcyclist that died because of a blackout was about 60 years old........he was on one of those 125cc Chinese bikes, so he wasn't exactly pushing things.

    ......blackouts and bloodclots can happen to anyone, but more likely as they get older, especially if their bodies and blood are subjected to 'unusual' forces........DVT being a common problem.

    ....do older jet plane pilots wear the 'Compression Trousers'....?
     
  8. I will take extra care in future and avoid 125cc Chinese bikes at all costs :upyeah:

    I would have thought that Compression Trousers were a given for anyone flying a classic jet, but I don't know for sure. Apparently short stocky guys stand up to high G better than tall thin guys.

    As an active commercial pilot this guy would have been having regular stringent medicals.
     
  9. I daresay, but then things can go wrong or be missed.......Lufthansa co-pilot; bin lorry driver in Scotand etc.
     
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  10. News saying pilot didn't eject
     
  11. Pilot didn't eject - nearly all the news stories right from the start have said he was pulled from the wreckage...
    The pictures of the aircraft hitting the ground clearly show the canopy was still closed.
     
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  12. He's in hospital in a critical condition.....poor fucker :(
     
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  13. father in law took a hart attack shortly after take off (professional pilot stringent health checks) so it does happen.
     
  14. Yep, I watched it back - must have been seeing things...
     
  15. I do hope that he recovers , apart from his own well being his evidence will be important in any investigation .
     
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  16. Yes, when an aeroplane hits the ground, that means it was too low. I think we worked that one out some time ago.
     
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  17. Did you read the linked article before making this post ?
     
  18. Was 2-up with the wife on that road when that happened. We weren't that far away from where it was (I was just getting the ump with traffic having stopped).

    A loop at 300ft lower than you are allowed to perform them is pretty damning though. Equipment failure or not, there's no successfully arguing against that. It does look like he didn't eject though, but that the aircraft broke up and pilot/seat unit got thrown clear.

    Ejecting that low is a death sentence anyway. Too low for the chute to have an effect so you just die anyway.
     
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